Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[KaNesDeath]

Based on what we know so far is it better to get the 3900x or the 3700x?

3700X for gaming. 3900X for gaming and if you stream from the same Pc. 3900X for rendering application work.

 

[Woldog]

3700X for gaming. 3900X for gaming and if you stream from the same Pc. 3900X for rendering application work.

Thanks, I do a bit of rendering nowdays but far less than I used to, so I may be better off getting the 3700x.

...didn't you just call ME fragile? i'm not the one who feels personally betrayed by a hardware company.

When you drop the kind of money I drop on computer systems, to build a system around a much hyped CPU only for it to be a bucket of shit (last time I made an AMD build) it's pretty difficult not to be wary of them again.
Are you just salty at life or something? Do you need someone to talk to lil fella?

 

[KaNesDeath]

Thanks, I do a bit of rendering nowdays but far less than I used to, so I may be better off getting the 3700x.

Price to performance wise it appears that way.

With the gaming benchmarks online the 3700X operates at 5% less frames than the i9 9900K while being $170 cheaper. So the cost of the 3700X and motherboard can equal just the cost of purchasing a i9 9900K.

One thing that is slightly confusing me about these new AMD chips is what motherboard AMD chipset version they use with the RAM specifications.

 

[Woldog]

Price to performance wise it appears that way.

With the gaming benchmarks online the 3700X operates at 5% less frames than the i9 9900K while being $170 cheaper. So the cost of the 3700X and motherboard can equal just the cost of purchasing a i9 9900K.

One thing that is slightly confusing me about these new AMD chips is what motherboard AMD chipset version they use with the RAM specifications.

@Madmick sent me this it may help you out.

 

[KaNesDeath]

@Madmick sent me this it may help you out.

This deals with energy requirements.

For when you look at AMD motherboards with the X570 AMD chipset it uses A-XMP OC Mode and JEDEC to define what DDR4 speeds can be used. Which are likely design standards used by ram makers. Yet which standard your ram maker uses isnt defined on their product page.

 

[Woldog]

This deals with energy requirements.

For when you look at AMD motherboards with the X570 AMD chipset it uses A-XMP OC Mode and JEDEC to define what DDR4 speeds can be used. Which are likely design standards used by ram makers. Yet which standard your ram maker uses isnt defined on their product page.

Ah, I've never even thought about the ram requirements, I've just bought 32gb 3000mhz G.Skill ram, so I'm hoping it'll be fine

 

[KaNesDeath]

Ah, I've never even thought about the ram requirements,

After a little research its becoming more clear. JEDEC is the standard while A-XMP is an additional Intel standard off of JEDEC.

For instance this is my ram: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820231967?Item=N82E16820231967

Im guessing since the chipset listed is "Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform" for my ram it means these memory modules are A-XMP(?).

 

[jefferz]

After a little research its becoming more clear. JEDEC is the standard while A-XMP is an additional Intel standard off of JEDEC.

For instance this is my ram: https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820231967?Item=N82E16820231967

Im guessing since the chipset listed is "Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform" for my ram it means these memory modules are A-XMP(?).

JEDEC is the group that comes up with these standards. The JEDEC standard for DDR4 is 2133MHz.
XMP is an Intel term. When you buy your RGB blinged out 3600MHz Samsung B die ram, XMP automatically changes your memory settings so you don't have to manually change them. If you don't change the settings in your bios, your fancy ram will run at the JEDEC standard 2133MHz. So it's kind of an auto overclock feature, but not really.
A-XMP is MSI's version of XMP on AMD motherboards. Asus calls it D.O.C.P. on their boards. Gigabytes is EOCP.

 

[KaNesDeath]

A-XMP is MSI's version of XMP on AMD motherboards. Asus calls it D.O.C.P. on their boards. Gigabytes is EOCP.

So for instance on this MSI AMD AM4 chipset X570 board with a 3rd gen 3700X processor: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144261

My ram on this motherboard will only run in JEDEC configuration. Which may require me to enter the bios to set ram speed manually?

 

[Madmick]

@Madmick sent me this it may help you out.

This was to aid you since you are an overclocker, and you deal with that Australian heat. The larger VRM boards, even if you weren't an overclocker, dissipate heat much more effectively, and thus would maintain lower temps. This is more crucial for the R9-3900X and R9-3950X since they have so many cores, and will draw more power. The Google Sheet linked is especially useful because the user is detailing the phases, doublers, mosfet (stuff that isn't normally compiled neatly anywhere else). It tells you which motherboards will support not only the best overclocks, but the lowest heat stress on the CPU (& motherboard) at any given voltage.

Based on what we know so far is it better to get the 3900x or the 3700x? they seem to be very close in gaming and both should be a good buy for rendering and photoshop

I've also considered the 9700k and the 9900k but at this stage it's a toss up between the 4 of them, AMD I lean more towards the 3900x

I would like to clarify that on value the 3700X is stronger, but in terms of raw gaming performance the 3900X will be better: a similar situation to the i5-9600K and i9-9900K. Unlike with Intel, this is especially true since many of the reviewers so far weren't able to equal the best single core turbo boosts with an all-core overclock, and as I pointed out above, we are still in a primitive era for simulating dynamic overclocking by tweaking the OC on each individual core in order to set much higher frequencies on the first several cores than the rest before testing to find the optimal preset that is stable. That's why the stock clock 3700X was beating itself when overclocked in many games, for example, when Greg Salazar tested them; because the peak turbo frequency at stock, even if it only hits a single core, is 4.4 GHz, but he was only able to achieve an all-core OC at 4.3 GHz. The former is shown to be more important to game framerates than the latter.

This is particularly relevant for determining "the best" since none of the reviews suggests the 3700X, even once you turn off SMT (multi-threading), can be overclocked to higher frequencies than its bigger brothers; not even on monster 280mm AIO coolers like you have. The binning AMD used to select which CPUs it sent out as 3900Xs appears to be more critical to ceiling frequencies.

*Edit*
Here is the German Wizard der8auer confirming this last highlighted sentence himself. Timestamped:

CSGO benchmarks are all i care about. The 3700X is looking nice : )

Aren't you still on your 6700K? You're not going to have to buy a new CPU until the next Counter-Strike comes out.

 

[Madmick]

Steve Burke just threw up the review revision with the AGESA patch:



*Edit* Anandtech's revised benchmark is also in. There were "positives and negatives" for gaming, but the results are virtually unchanged.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14605/the-and-ryzen-3700x-3900x-review-raising-the-bar/13

Spoiler Alert: if you actually understand what the charts you're reading say, and can do simple math, you will have already known the outcome. The i9-9900K still reigns supreme as a gaming CPU.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Aren't you still on your 6700K? You're not going to have to buy a new CPU until the next Counter-Strike comes out.

5820K. September will be five years.

 

[jefferz]

So for instance on this MSI AMD AM4 chipset X570 board with a 3rd gen 3700X processor: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144261

My ram on this motherboard will only run in JEDEC configuration. Which may require me to enter the bios to set ram speed manually?

On the motherboard you posted, if you don't turn on A-XMP your ram would run at 2133MHz.
Here's the bios from that motherboard you listed.

 

[KaNesDeath]

On the motherboard you posted, if you don't turn on A-XMP your ram would run at 2133MHz.

Believe i understand now. Thanks : )

 

[jefferz]

 

[Woldog]

Is there any program that maps the average temperature of your CPU rather than just the High, low and current temp

 

[ssBaldy]

I am a bit weirded out by X570 motheboards price range, anywhere from 200 to 600+$
does anyone know what's the big difference that grants triple price??

 

[Madmick]

Is there any program that maps the average temperature of your CPU rather than just the High, low and current temp

Someone else will probably have a better answer, but I think what you might be after is for your software to sense the temperature at intervals, and output the results to a log file (such as a txt or csv file). It's these types of files that the reviewers will use to map graphs (using Excel) that show temps over time, CPU usage by core over time, etc:
https://softwarerecs.stackexchange....puter-temperature-to-a-log-file-under-windows

Spoiler

CoreTemp

RealTemp

I am a bit weirded out by X570 motheboards price range, anywhere from 200 to 600+$
does anyone know what's the big difference that grants triple price??

Because so far nearly every single X570 motherboard detailed so far is constructed of premium designs:


Compare the old X470/B450 "Tier List":


If you compare the above and below you'll notice that only the "Top Tier" and "High End" motherboards from the previous generation are rated to the most demanding 200A cooling rubric; meanwhile, every X570 motherboard that has been filled out in the above spreadsheet meets this rubric but three (which are "borderline"). Additionally, these new X570 motherboards are effectively built on the same standards as the TR4 motherboards that run the Threadripper chips with the exception that they only support dual channel memory, but they also carry the new PCIe4 standard. This is understandable since they must be able to handle up to the 16-core R9-3950X when it releases. They also natively carry at least 8 x USB 3.2 Gen2 ports which in past generations-- for USB 3.1 Gen2-- would have been something only the $200+ boards would typically carry:
AMD X570 vs. X470, X370 Chipset Comparison, Lanes, Specs, & Differences

This is why you might have noticed I was constantly recommending the MSI B450 Tomahawk motherboard for budget Zen & Zen+ builds. At $115 it has been a screaming deal for budget overclockers (rated up to 150A in the new chart). It's easily been the best buy among that motherboard socket for a long time. The MSI B450 Pro Gaming Carbon AC was the best that natively supported WiFi.

Of course, AMD has left it up to the motherboard manufacturers to support the new Ryzen 3000 CPUs on their older motherboards, but some of them enjoy much better equipped designs to handle it. Greg Salazar had some fun getting the 3900X to post on an old A320 board (spoiler: despite the clickbait thumbnail for the video-- it worked):

 

[ssBaldy]

Someone else will probably have a better answer, but I think what you might be after is for your software to sense the temperature at intervals, and output the results to a log file (such as a txt or csv file). It's these types of files that the reviewers will use to map graphs (using Excel) that show temps over time, CPU usage by core over time, etc:
https://softwarerecs.stackexchange....puter-temperature-to-a-log-file-under-windows

Spoiler

CoreTemp

RealTemp

Because so far nearly every single X570 motherboard detailed so far is constructed of premium designs:


Compare the old X470/B450 "Tier List":


If you compare the above and below you'll notice that only the "Top Tier" and "High End" motherboards from the previous generation are rated to the most demanding 200A cooling rubric; meanwhile, every X570 motherboard that has been filled out in the above spreadsheet meets this rubric but three (which are "borderline"). Additionally, these new X570 motherboards are effectively built on the same standards as the TR4 motherboards that run the Threadripper chips with the exception that they only support dual channel memory, but they also carry the new PCIe4 standard. This is understandable since they must be able to handle up to the 16-core R9-3950X when it releases. They also natively carry at least 8 x USB 3.2 Gen2 ports which in past generations-- for USB 3.1 Gen2-- would have been something only the $200+ boards would typically carry:
AMD X570 vs. X470, X370 Chipset Comparison, Lanes, Specs, & Differences

This is why you might have noticed I was constantly recommending the MSI B450 Tomahawk motherboard for budget Zen & Zen+ builds. At $115 it has been a screaming deal for budget overclockers (rated up to 150A in the new chart). It's easily been the best buy among that motherboard socket for a long time. The MSI B450 Pro Gaming Carbon AC was the best that natively supported WiFi.

Of course, AMD has left it up to the motherboard manufacturers to support the new Ryzen 3000 CPUs on their older motherboards, but some of them enjoy much better equipped designs to handle it. Greg Salazar had some fun getting the 3900X to post on an old A320 board (spoiler: despite the clickbait thumbnail for the video-- it worked):

Thanks for the info but I was asking about differences among x570 boards, I have no intention to buy an older board.
For example MSI boards.

From what I found online, Godlike board (777 euros) has an LCD display and fancier lights. What else does it have to justify it being 3 times as expensive as MPG Gaming pro carbon(265 euros)?
I feel they will be the same performance-wise since they both have the very same chipset.

 

[Madmick]

Thanks for the info but I was asking about differences among x570 boards, I have no intention to buy an older board.
For example MSI boards.

From what I found online, Godlike board (777 euros) has an LCD display and fancier lights. What else does it have to justify it being 3 times as expensive as MPG Gaming pro carbon(265 euros)?
I feel they will be the same performance-wise since they both have the very same chipset.

If you read what I just wrote a bit more carefully you might have extrapolated an inference. Notice the differences in the cooling designs in the spreadsheet linked above for the more expensive models. Notice the two priciest models are E-ATX motherboards: more space for more features. That's why it supports so many PCIex16 slots; so many m.2 cards. This Dutch website is still filling in their exhaustive spec sheets, and they're not as reliable as they used to be for comprehensive review (the shutdown of the US site suggests they are struggling as a business), but it will give you a deeper idea of the many differences between motherboards that are rarely listed:
https://nl.hardware.info/categorie/1/moederborden/producten

*Edit*
Anandtech has also rounded up and detailed all the X570 motherboards in depth:
The AMD X570 Motherboard Overview: Over 35+ Motherboards Analyzed

Is it a competitive value? Of course not. It's no different than the "Dream" builds you see where PCs cost like $20,000. It's almost entirely luxury with little advantage to performance-- especially gaming performance.