Television Game of Thrones Prequel KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS: THE HEDGE KNIGHT (First Official Image, post #56)

[HenryFlower]

Yea they never show how good of a fighter both hands jamie should be, if i remember correctly he was number 3 after selmy and dayne

iirc even Barry is unsure if he’d be able to best Jaime

 

[Rob Battisti]

iirc even Barry is unsure if he’d be able to best Jaime

I remember something like that.

Basically he was a top 3 all time swordsman.

Not to say others couldn’t beat him, but sword skills he was top 3.

Can’t believe they made Dayne a dual weilder… SMDH

 

[HenryFlower]

Can’t believe they made Dayne a dual weilder… SMDH

vomit. besides the obvious glaring issues, it was the small details like this that solidified D&D as hacks who conned GRRM (not that GRRM is completely guilt free here, as he definitely reached a point where he was more than willing to be conned if it meant $$$)

 

[Vergilius]

Honestly, who gives a flying frick if a character has brown or "sunstreaked" or blonde hair, or if he's a dual or single wielder or if he is 6'4'' or 7 feet? It's the characterization, development and performance that matters, not if the producers cast the guy most likely to win a lookalike contest from GRR Martin's clunky prose.

Nobody sane would want a sexualized 12-year old Danaerys or a Tyrion doing backflips and handstands like in the books. What matters is if the adaption can stand up on its own terms while retaining the core of the source material.

 

[Thrawn33]

iirc even Barry is unsure if he’d be able to best Jaime

Yeah but I got the idea that Jamie didn't think he could beat Barry, which considering he was the only one I could think of that Jamie held in reverence like that, would give Barry the edge.

 

[HenryFlower]

Honestly, who gives a flying frick if a character has brown or "sunstreaked" or blonde hair, or if he's a dual or single wielder or if he is 6'4'' or 7 feet? It's the characterization, development and performance that matters, not if the producers cast the guy most likely to win a lookalike contest from GRR Martin's clunky prose.

Nobody sane would want a sexualized 12-year old Danaerys or a Tyrion doing backflips and handstands like in the books. What matters is if the adaption can stand up on its own terms while retaining the core of the source material.

Dayne isn’t given a chance to be developed or performed. so getting the details right is pretty frickin’ important when presenting the audience this character.

 

[Bacco]

Swords are pretty much useless against heavy armor unless you got in close and jammed into the armpit or neck. Swords have always been a secondary weapon (in real life.)

But this is TV, so swords look cooler.

To be fair is more about context
We passed from super-romanticized vision of swords to have also extreme opposite, where knowledge guy will show up and shit on swords as if they almost had no place outside fairy tales, seen lot of both on teh internet lol

It's about have a whole vision of what war used to be
Sure is true open battlefield with big formations of men were context where polearms and projectile stuff of any kind were absolute rulers beside some melee situations and swords had huge decline through history (even if centuries before Romans had quite a run with their gladius, but tbh greeks were big spear fans before them so has been a phase lol)

But is also true medieval war have many faces, like assault walls, conquer a castle/fortified area, storm a city streets or smaller scale skirmishes in uneven or narrow areas were all situations where swords found lot of use since don't require same kind of big flat space to manoveur and offered versatility to be used in many situations
Wich ironically may seem to us very small parts of warfare, but reality is in terms of time when you watch the official period of a conflict (often long) the open big battlefield time part was too usually super tiny portion of that even if often resulted decisive or at least having greatest cody counts
Only part that had realy large amount of consecutive time were sieges but these by their own nature beyond lot of heavy and light projectile stuff did'nt had much action time (and when they did ironically was smaller scale actions that often involved swords)

Example here in Italy wich was bunch of different city states with many fortified towns each, warfare included lot of swordmanship situations too and indeed many different schools of fencing were not just seen as noble hobby but appreciated by low-birth mercenaries as useful skill

Also we have bit of reasoning flaw to think when full plate armor became a thing suddently everybody had one, when it was more like a very very tiny % thing, and the super rich guy wearing it was very likely riding an horse so not much chances to sword duel him lol
When we think about it is ironical how some weapons designed to work well against plate like some maces were waaaaay more situational than swords since whole idea was 1% guy meet enemy 1% guy on that specific big battlefield day, fail to drop him by lance, end up at meele range and strike him (possibily not killing him but capturing alive)

Btw not saying that you're wrong saying in fiction there's insane spam of swords, just that there could still be lot of justified space for them if scene were better written to have situations where make sense lot of sword fighting is involved







BUT
This retarded shit hyped me the fuck up, dspite being even more unlikely shit than dothrakis 99% blind charge

so i'm part of the problem lmao

Lol watching it you can feel there's no better defence ever than writer's plot shield

 

[Hog-train]

Also we have bit of reasoning flaw to think when full plate armor became a thing suddently everybody had one, when it was more like a very very tiny % thing, and the super rich guy wearing it was very likely riding an horse so not much chances to sword duel him lol
When we think about it is ironical how some weapons designed to work well against plate like some maces were waaaaay more situational than swords since whole idea was 1% guy meet enemy 1% guy on that specific big battlefield day, fail to drop him by lance, end up at meele range and strike him (possibily not killing him but capturing alive)

Btw not saying that you're wrong saying in fiction there's insane spam of swords, just that there could still be lot of justified space for them if scene were better written to have situations where make sense lot of sword fighting is involved

Yea but the sword was ALSO a rich man thing.

Swords are made of metal and are super expensive to make. They require an extremely experienced and devoted blacksmith who doesn’t mind spending days on end getting arthritis in front of a searing fire. Throughout history, the vast majority of warriors would have carried simpler weapons like a spear. A talented few would have a bow, sling, or another projectile weapon.

Spears, axes, hammers, pikes, and other such weapons require much less metal to make and less skill to use. AND more effective in a war situation.

Even for the rich who could afford a sword and armor, the sword was still a secondary weapon. It was used for close quarters or if they lose their primary weapon.

A sword a lot of times were worn as a status symbol and functioned as a sidearm of sorts. Warriors of all kinds wore swords when not engaging in warfare. I mean most soldiers don't go around town wearing armor at all times.

In normal clothes, they wore the sword as a sidearm.

Even with Samurai and the fabled katana. The reason for their length and curved shape was that they were designed for a "quick draw" slice to kill people quickly in one stroke - like how a sidearm would function today. Contrary to popular belief, the katana was not the Samurai's primary weapon.

 

[Bacco]

Yea they never show how good of a fighter both hands jamie should be, if i remember correctly he was number 3 after selmy and dayne

Yeah, considering Dayne was dead so out of games and Selmy was getting old, Jaime had solid chance at even #1 spot too if he could take the old man by speed and stamina

In the show when they fought (completely made up) will lie if did'nt liked the idea Ned is underrated and just humble about it, able to "draw" till they was'nt interrupted... but at same time made no fucking sense, Jaime had every immaginable advantage: talent, age, physical and lot lot of training under best, while Ned with all his disadvantages also surely trained much less under lesser masters, since his duty at that point was being a ruler and was never obsessed by get spotlight as tournaments
Reality in books Jaime would have likely have killed Ned in one assault while being asshole

TV Jaime was abslutely mad at soldier denying him fair dick contest with Ned, reality is book Jaime would not give fucks since never considered Ned to be worthy to even be in that league
Irrc at some point Jaime think about very few men he would consider dangerous and make very few names, one was the Hound, others i don't remember

Btw peak Jaime scene could have been him killing bunch of skilled warriors trying to reach Robb Stark before getting outnumbered and captured, i don't even remember it in the show so they either skipped it or done it like shit
And anything after that only had him more and more downplayed to play him as the dumb knight type that get bitchslapped by real life smartass kind (literally with his own hand in Broon's case)

Then we have people that get barely mentioned but feels could have a chance, like iirc Loras was supposed to be exceptionally talented (with some comparing him to a younger Jaime) yet his older brother we never see was supposed to be better swordman and stronger/heavier man

In general i like the idea in that world relativly large bunch of exceptionally talented men had solid chance to slay Jaime in a duel, rather than like less than 5 guys... but is also true Jaime written by Martin should have been who you put your money on, and tv show made shit job at show that lol

But if we talk about people that got shit tv service, this guy in his prime not so long before would have got decent chance at murder Jaime 1v1

Sure in the books was supposed to be waaay past his prime and overweight, but still somewhere it should hint he once was knights version of an huge and tall superathlete, good luck with this guy lol

 

[Bacco]

Yea but the sword was ALSO a rich man thing.

Swords are made of metal and are super expensive to make. They require an extremely experienced and devoted blacksmith who doesn’t mind spending days on end getting arthritis in front of a searing fire. Throughout history, the vast majority of warriors would have carried simpler weapons like a spear. A talented few would have a bow, sling, or another projectile weapon.

Spears, axes, hammers, pikes, and other such weapons require much less metal to make and less skill to use. AND more effective in a war situation.

Even for the rich who could afford a sword and armor, the sword was still a secondary weapon. It was used for close quarters or if they lose their primary weapon.

A sword a lot of times were worn as a status symbol and functioned as a sidearm of sorts. Warriors of all kinds wore swords when not engaging in warfare. I mean most soldiers don't go around town wearing armor at all times.

In normal clothes, they wore the sword as a sidearm.

Even with Samurai and the fabled katana. The reason for their length and curved shape was that they were designed for a "quick draw" slice to kill people quickly in one stroke - like how a sidearm would function today. Contrary to popular belief, the katana was not the Samurai's primary weapon.

That's bit exageration, unless we talk reasonably high quality one
Sure, they had higher cost/material and they used to be less common through history, but could still be done in mass production and we had armies having it as part of basic equipment if that was the choice

Even if we talk about battlefield more common for footsoldier would be short sword, indeed imagining the spears part is passed and in chaotic melee shorter blade is preferable

Effectiveness an skill requre is true though
As effectiveness simple concept is you can go to war without swords but not without spears, this alone should hint metal destination if you don't have much to waste

Skill too, stick pointy end in the face/belly of enemy is easier to teach (specially if to boost numbers you use bunch of untrained people) both as individual skill and as group formation

Still basic quality swords were not as rare as plate armors, these and good horse were the real noble/rich guy gimmick

It's correct to say swords were also "peace-time" weapons too used in civil context too, most of medieval/renassaince fencing is born to be self-defense art with that city or peace premise you may have to fight without wear armor/protections beside clothes

Yeah samurai would go first for bow or spear, but there you have that katana have that in pop culture has been even more romanticized than european sword lol

 

[Cole train]

I still prefer WW1 style spiked brass knuckles over swords

shows you are serious and just screams attitude

 

[Hog-train]

BTW highly skilled archers were actually the ultimate chads in ancient times.

 

[Vergilius]

Dayne isn’t given a chance to be developed or performed. so getting the details right is pretty frickin’ important when presenting the audience this character.

He's barely a character, though. He's one of GRRM's power fantasies with little else to him and he's got violet eyes to boot. What do you want the show to do? Compared to a fantastic character like Jaime Lannister, he is just undeserving of screen time.

 

[HenryFlower]

He's barely a character, though. He's one of GRRM's power fantasies with little else to him and he's got violet eyes to boot. What do you want the show to do? Compared to a fantastic character like Jaime Lannister, he is just undeserving of screen time.

lol alright. it’s not like Dayne is part of one of the most integral moments to the story or anything

 

[Vergilius]

lol alright. it’s not like Dayne is part of one of the most integral moments to the story or anything

That has little bearing on whether he is an actual character with personality traits and development... he just isn't. He's a sword with a dude attached to it, rather than the other way around.

 

[HenryFlower]

That has little bearing on whether he is an actual character with personality traits and development... he just isn't. He's a sword with a dude attached to it, rather than the other way around.

then why did they make him two swords w/ a dude attached to it

 

[Rob Battisti]

Yeah, considering Dayne was dead so out of games and Selmy was getting old, Jaime had solid chance at even #1 spot too if he could take the old man by speed and stamina

In the show when they fought (completely made up) will lie if did'nt liked the idea Ned is underrated and just humble about it, able to "draw" till they was'nt interrupted... but at same time made no fucking sense, Jaime had every immaginable advantage: talent, age, physical and lot lot of training under best, while Ned with all his disadvantages also surely trained much less under lesser masters, since his duty at that point was being a ruler and was never obsessed by get spotlight as tournaments
Reality in books Jaime would have likely have killed Ned in one assault while being asshole

TV Jaime was abslutely mad at soldier denying him fair dick contest with Ned, reality is book Jaime would not give fucks since never considered Ned to be worthy to even be in that league
Irrc at some point Jaime think about very few men he would consider dangerous and make very few names, one was the Hound, others i don't remember

Btw peak Jaime scene could have been him killing bunch of skilled warriors trying to reach Robb Stark before getting outnumbered and captured, i don't even remember it in the show so they either skipped it or done it like shit
And anything after that only had him more and more downplayed to play him as the dumb knight type that get bitchslapped by real life smartass kind (literally with his own hand in Broon's case)

Then we have people that get barely mentioned but feels could have a chance, like iirc Loras was supposed to be exceptionally talented (with some comparing him to a younger Jaime) yet his older brother we never see was supposed to be better swordman and stronger/heavier man

In general i like the idea in that world relativly large bunch of exceptionally talented men had solid chance to slay Jaime in a duel, rather than like less than 5 guys... but is also true Jaime written by Martin should have been who you put your money on, and tv show made shit job at show that lol

But if we talk about people that got shit tv service, this guy in his prime not so long before would have got decent chance at murder Jaime 1v1

Sure in the books was supposed to be waaay past his prime and overweight, but still somewhere it should hint he once was knights version of an huge and tall superathlete, good luck with this guy lol

Jamie was the best swordsman of his time.

Most skilled by a mile.

However, styles make fights.

Someone like The Hound, The Mountain could physically overwhelm him and someone like Oberyn, could have been a tough match up.

I also forget Loras brother but he was suppose to be a stud.

Prime Selmy smokes him though.