Gagging for it (SCO Thread v. 29) Update Mueller Report Released

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USA is such a weak country internally.
 
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NC252 said:
Collusion is not a crime. But if you was paid by the Kremlin that would be a crime.
Click to expand...
We'll have to wait until the evidence is released but it does like they found a trail of money leading to Manafort. Will be interesting to see where it originated and what the timeline was.
 
vengeful said:
How big was his debt considering the federal government has seized millions of his assets?
Click to expand...
Just between two sources that are known he was about $40MM in debt. And those are just the ones known.

So his entire asset base of abut $42MM confiscated would have been had to be liquified to pay off his debts and him to walk away homeless.

Manafort Joined Trump as Ukraine Work Slowed, Cash Woes Rose

Manafort's financial troubles raise new questions about why he offered to work as an unpaid volunteer to the Trump campaign
 
Previous Threads
1. Don Jr. Confirms Trump Tower "adoption" meeting w/ kushner, Manafort
2. Gowdy Excoriates Trump
3. Trump Fixates on Leakers
4. Cover of Time
5. "Nothing Illegal"
7. "Nothingburger"
8. Royale With Cheese
9. First Charges
10. One Guilty Plea, Two Indictments
11. This is it Megathread
12. From Mueller with Love
13. Bob Mueller's Thirteen Russian Burgers
14. Conspiracy is a Gates-way Drug
15. Nunberg, not Nothingburger
16. Urine Trouble
17. Tamper Tantrum
18. The investigation just GRU
19. Mid-air Collusion
20. Just a Cohencidence
21. Pecker Problems
22. Patton the Back
23. Manafort Pleas, Thank You
24. Ferris Mueller's Election Off
25. Use it in a Sentence
26. Flynn Cohen to Prison
27. Perjuring the Swamp
28. Get me Roger Stone

Current big news:
  • According to an anonymous source, the Mueller Report may be submitted by March 2019
  • Roger Stone and his attorneys are no longer allowed to publicly discuss their case except to assert his innocence and ask for money. This is because the court issued an extensive gag order after Stone tweeted a picture of the judge next to a crosshair symbol.
  • The Manhattan District Attorney is prepared to bring state criminal charges if Trump pardons Manafort.
Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR Lounge thread.
Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above

Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.

Major events so far:
  • Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. Manafort pleaded guilty, agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors, and then lied to them.
  • Roger Stone has been charged with Obstruction, Lying to Investigators, and Witness Tampering. This is in connection with an investigation into his contacts with WikiLeaks and the dissemination of info from the DNC and Clinton hacks. He is now subject to a gag order.
  • Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations, which he claims to have committed at Trump's direction to influence the election. Cohen cooperated with federal prosecutors and received a 3-year sentence.
  • Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org. CFO, has agreed to immunity in exchange for cooperating with federal prosecutors
  • Rick Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
  • George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied. Papadopoulos is now accusing Mifsud of being a deep state plant on Twitter.
  • Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
  • 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them. There is also a separate 12 count indictment targeting GRU officers
  • An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
  • Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
  • Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen. Who has pleaded guilty and offered to fully cooperate.
  • Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft
  • Bruce Ohr, of dossier fame, has been working to obtain information from Russian oligarchs since 2014.
  • Documents relating to Manafort's guilty plea implicate Tony Podesta. Tony Podesta is the brother of Clinton's campaign advisor, John Podesta. His former firm, which is now cooperating with the probe, worked for Manafort in Ukraine.
Dumb talking points:
Stone wasn't charged with Collusion!
Correct. He was charged for obstructing the investigation, lying under oath, and witness tampering.

Why hasn't anybody been charged with "collusion"?
Collusion is a catch-all term. It's not the name of a specific crime.

So where is the Collusion?
The Mueller investigation is about any links between "the Russian Government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump". Stone is an individual associated with the campaign of Donald Trump. The link investigated there revolves around the information stolen by Russian state actors and distributed through WikiLeaks. For other links, read above.

Where are the thousands of Indictments?
What thousands? There are forty or so listed here, but nobody has claimed thousands.

Stone says he didn't do it!
So do a lot of other defendants who turn out to be guilty.

These are "process crimes", so they don't really count.
First, there isn't a judge in this country who believes that things like obstruction and witness tampering aren't serious crimes. The distinction between "process" crimes and other felonies is meaningless. Second, a significant amount of charged conduct goes well beyond "process." Third, there is definitely a great deal of uncharged or sealed conduct that goes beyond "process"-as shown by the failed redaction in Manafort's recent filing.

CNN was there an hour before Stone was arrested!
Who gives a shit? Why does that matter?
 
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Pls give me the information in law school brief format.
 
This is it! This is the thread that is going to conclude the Mueller thread series.
 
Quipling said:
Previous Threads
1. Don Jr. Confirms Trump Tower "adoption" meeting w/ kushner, Manafort
2. Gowdy Excoriates Trump
3. Trump Fixates on Leakers
4. Cover of Time
5. "Nothing Illegal"
7. "Nothingburger"
8. Royale With Cheese
9. First Charges
10. One Guilty Plea, Two Indictments
11. This is it Megathread
12. From Mueller with Love
13. Bob Mueller's Thirteen Russian Burgers
14. Conspiracy is a Gates-way Drug
15. Nunberg, not Nothingburger
16. Urine Trouble
17. Tamper Tantrum
18. The investigation just GRU
19. Mid-air Collusion
20. Just a Cohencidence
21. Pecker Problems
22. Patton the Back
23. Manafort Pleas, Thank You
24. Ferris Mueller's Election Off
25. Use it in a Sentence
26. Flynn Cohen to Prison
27. Perjuring the Swamp
28. Get me Roger Stone

Current big news:
  • According to an anonymous source, the Mueller Report may be submitted by March 2019
  • Roger Stone and his attorneys are no longer allowed to publicly discuss their case except to assert his innocence and ask for money. This is because the court issued an extensive gag order after Stone tweeted a picture of the judge next to a crosshair symbol.
  • The Manhattan District Attorney is prepared to bring state criminal charges if Trump pardons Manafort.
Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR Lounge thread.
Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above

Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.

Major events so far:
  • Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. Manafort pleaded guilty, agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors, and then lied to them.
  • Roger Stone has been charged with Obstruction, Lying to Investigators, and Witness Tampering. This is in connection with an investigation into his contacts with WikiLeaks and the dissemination of info from the DNC and Clinton hacks. He is now subject to a gag order.
  • Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations, which he claims to have committed at Trump's direction to influence the election. Cohen cooperated with federal prosecutors and received a 3-year sentence.
  • Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org. CFO, has agreed to immunity in exchange for cooperating with federal prosecutors
  • Rick Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
  • George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied. Papadopoulos is now accusing Mifsud of being a deep state plant on Twitter.
  • Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
  • 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them. There is also a separate 12 count indictment targeting GRU officers
  • An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
  • Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
  • Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen. Who has pleaded guilty and offered to fully cooperate.
  • Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft
  • Bruce Ohr, of dossier fame, has been working to obtain information from Russian oligarchs since 2014.
  • Documents relating to Manafort's guilty plea implicate Tony Podesta. Tony Podesta is the brother of Clinton's campaign advisor, John Podesta. His former firm, which is now cooperating with the probe, worked for Manafort in Ukraine.
Dumb talking points:
Stone wasn't charged with Collusion!
Correct. He was charged for obstructing the investigation, lying under oath, and witness tampering.

Why hasn't anybody been charged with "collusion"?
Collusion is a catch-all term. It's not the name of a specific crime.

So where is the Collusion?
The Mueller investigation is about any links between "the Russian Government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump". Stone is an individual associated with the campaign of Donald Trump. The link investigated there revolves around the information stolen by Russian state actors and distributed through WikiLeaks. For other links, read above.

Where are the thousands of Indictments?
What thousands? There are forty or so listed here, but nobody has claimed thousands.

Stone says he didn't do it!
So do a lot of other defendants who turn out to be guilty.

These are "process crimes", so they don't really count.
First, there isn't a judge in this country who believes that things like obstruction and witness tampering aren't serious crimes. The distinction between "process" crimes and other felonies is meaningless. Second, a significant amount of charged conduct goes well beyond "process." Third, there is definitely a great deal of uncharged or sealed conduct that goes beyond "process"-as shown by the failed redaction in Manafort's recent filing.

CNN was there an hour before Stone was arrested!
Who gives a shit? Why does that matter?
Click to expand...
TLDR: 29 threads in and still nothing.
 
Roger Stone should use more caution. That picture was a boneheaded move because it basically justified the judge’s original gag order. These people can ruin his life, regardless of whether he’s innocent or guilty. His best bet is to delay trial until after the Mueller report issues. Perhaps challenge the obstruction and lying statute as applied and get it into the SCOTUS. Personally, I’d like to see those statutes tossed or revised—they’re far too prone to abuse.

After Mueller issues his little report, I suspect the charges will be dropped, or a Presidential pardon will issue.
 
JamesRussler said:
Roger Stone should use more caution. That picture was a boneheaded move because it basically justified the judge’s original gag order. These people can ruin his life, regardless of whether he’s innocent or guilty. His best bet is to delay trial until after the Mueller report issues. Perhaps challenge the obstruction and lying statute as applied and get it into the SCOTUS. Personally, I’d like to see those statutes tossed or revised—they’re far too prone to abuse.

After Mueller issues his little report, I suspect the charges will be dropped, or a Presidential pardon will issue.
Click to expand...


They're all idiots that's why we're even here to begin with.
 
I'm still calling April. If anyone wants to start a pool, I'm in.
 
Look at all those criminals going to jail. Niiiiiice
 
JamesRussler said:
I see them as casualties of a corrupt and partisan bureaucracy. History will be the final arbiter of that issue.
Click to expand...
I see them as willing participants in a criminal enterprise.
 
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