Future of BJJ now?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SAMURAI SPIRIT, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. SAMURAI SPIRIT

    SAMURAI SPIRIT Blue Belt

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    Is its true that a lot of competitions are modifying rules and penalizing guard jumpers in an attempt to encourage takedowns and throws? Does that mean that we will be seeing BJJ become an extended judo match with submissions?

    I have always wanted to incorporate Judo in BJJ but if that is where this is headed, it may not even be needed. What does everyone else think?
     
  2. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    Until NAGA/GQ/IBJJF penalized guard pulls, it won't really matter. And it probably wouldn't even matter if everyone besides the IBJJF did
     
  3. ILikeDogging

    ILikeDogging Blue Belt

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    It's a catch 22:

    Penalize guard pulls and it would take the emphasis away from developing an awesome guard.

    Don't penalize guard pulls and it takes the emphasis away from developing good takedowns (I think this is less of a shame for BJJ but more for MMA. This is still important though as BJJ s roots are so closely attached to MMA).
     
  4. Commissar

    Commissar Gold Belt

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    I don't think they should penalize guard pullers. One of the great things about BJJ is the literally unlimited amount of personal styles available for a person to learn (in exchange, forcing everyone else to train that style), and punishing one of those styles is just unfair practice. By penalizing guard pulling, it would force everyone to be training stand up - but we don't want that. BJJ isn't supposed to be Judo with better groundwork, it's supposed to be BJJ. And one of the things that makes BJJ what it is, is the near limitless options on how to apply your techniques in a match.

    I'm not a guard puller by any means, but to punish that one style is wrong.
     
  5. Knuckles69

    Knuckles69 Purple Belt

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    I think they should penalize guard pullers. It is conceding the take down.

    I used to think that giving the opponent of the guard puller was the solution, but I'm starting to think that what they should do is give -2 advantage points to the guard puller. That way if the guard puller does pull off a sweep it would be 2-0 on points and -2-0 on advantages. The guard puller would still win on points, but if the guard puller didn't pull off a sweep or somehow get 2 good submission attempts they would lose by the -2 advantage points.
     
  6. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    I'd say it would help bring the guard back to it's original, and most practical/real-life applicable, function - recovering from a throw or sidecontrol/mount. No-one would ever pull guard in a real life altercation, so why is it such a huge thing in competition? It might even lessen some of the modern guard silliness that we see so much of today. Personally, I find the idea of Judo/wrestling continued on the ground to submission to be infinitely better than guard-pulling/butt-flopping followed by 8 minutes of pass vs sweep and someone winning by points or advantage.

    I'd penalize guard-pulling by 2 points so there's no longer a huge disincentive to fighting for the takedown.
     
  7. envee

    envee White Belt

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    i like how butt floppers are penalized. i wish the IBJJF would implement this rule and take bjj a step closer to it's self defense roots.
     
  8. jclaudevandamme

    jclaudevandamme Blue Belt

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    I am not against guard pull. I am against guard jump. I see no reason to like to compete against or watch someone keep his hips half a feet from floor while trying to jump on first opportunity and lock the guard. Also, sitting after getting a grip is bullshit.

    I would like to have a clear distinction between what it is allowed and what is not in terms of pulling guard. IMO, anything that can be turned into a slam (the top guy is still able to keep the one that pulled guard in air) should be awarded the takedown points.
     
  9. kintana

    kintana Purple Belt

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    This is why I am glad bjj is not going to be in the Olympics. All these rules changes hurt the art. I say if a guy wants to jump guard let him
     
  10. soda_popinski

    soda_popinski Orange Belt

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    I wish the person that get submitted loses...o wait. Seriously, if you want to win, submit the person. If you cant stop them pulling guard or pass their guard once in it then that's your problem. We do not need more rules in BJJ matches.
     
  11. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    -1 point for pulling guard. no big deal. I would prefer this way anyway, we need more TDs im mma
     
  12. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    All guard pulls should count as a TD. If the puller can sweep within 5 sec he gets the credit for the TD, otherwise he gave up a TD.
     
  13. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    no way. bjj is supposed to be the blueprint for REAL ground fighting. the points are based on dominant positions in a real fight situation.'
     
  14. QingTian

    QingTian Purple Belt

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    If you don't penalize pulling guard, maybe you shouldn't penalize slamming either. I'm fine with the butt scooting, as long as I don't have to spend the energy putting someone down gently and then opening a pansy ass closed guard.

    Or is slamming legal?
     
  15. Championstuff

    Championstuff Brown Belt Platinum Member

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    What about the butt scoot?
     
  16. DeadSexyBeasteh

    DeadSexyBeasteh Banned Banned

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    Just give takedowns, throws, sweeps, etc.. more points. It would reward the guy, and not penalize a guard puller.
     
  17. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    If the guard puller is not able to sweep immediately off the guard pull it should be scored as a minor takedown for the opponent.

    Judo has implemented rules over time to minimize newaza and ibjjf has rules that minimize effective standing grappling. I feel both of those efforts are mistaken.

    I would like to see a system where takedowns are scored differently such as in judo (but with no instant win for ippon level takedowns) but the only way to end a match before the time runs out is a submission.

    Under such a system a guard pull that does not lead into an immediate sweep would be scored as a minor throw for the person that lands on top.
     
  18. DeadSexyBeasteh

    DeadSexyBeasteh Banned Banned

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    It would be most excellent for the standup and ground games to be graded seperately. The thing is it would turn into a grappling contest not a BJJ tourney. Which I'd enjoy, but I imagine that's not everyone else would want. They train strictly for BJJ.
     
  19. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Yeah personally I think that mindset of largely ignoring groundwork in judo and largely ignoring standup in bjj are the biggest historical evolutionary mistakes of each style and in both cases competition rules have significantly diluted a large portion of the art.

    I'd like to see them married back together into old school kodokan jiu jitsu, and that's what I try to do in my personal style.
     
  20. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Making a takedown worth 4pts would end most of the problem.
     

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