Frank Shamrock's Hypothetical Run. How Far Would He Go?

[Poirierfan]

That's awesome and a great card indeed. It was cool to see Lewis get a win as well. I was always a fan of John Lewis but he just couldn't put it together. Good shit man.

Thanks, what I remember most about that card was Brad Kholer's visious ko. The UFC used that ko in their intro for many years, it became somewhat iconic.

This is it .....

 

[Lucas1980]

Thanks, what I remember most about that card was Brad Kholer's visious ko. The UFC used that ko in their intro for many years, it became somewhat iconic.

This is it .....

That was an awesome KO indeed by Brad "Natty" Kohler. I still think that was one of the greatest Eras of the UFC

 

[Poirierfan]

My

That was an awesome KO indeed by Brad "Natty" Kohler. I still think that was one of the greatest Eras of the UFC

I agree, the early days and all the way through to the end of Strikeforce and Pride, it was the best. We wasn't force fed MMA all the time so it was much more exciting too imo. Also the refs let the fighters finish fights, there wasn't near as many premature stoppages. It also allowed for more crazy comeback wins.

 

[RoñaCastroJr]

Frank was a slick ass fighter for his weight, UFC was hard to gauge at that time by weight divisions. I think frank could have fought lighter, and my opinion about him..he would have been at sakuraba and GSP level...hell he beat Tito ...he was the first real complete well rounded fighter I saw at that time between strikes, take downs, and off his back...I think he was the best I saw at that early time. I would compare him to sakuraba and GSP...would have a hard time comparing him to AS or IA or Alex at mw...I saw him as a small MW or a great WW...I heard him say in todays world he would have never fought at MW...I heard him say that...so I am guessing he was alluding to being more of a WW than a MW...I believe that...the Lions den fighters were juice heads....and Ken Shamrock had a fight at 185 in the early days...Frank was always smaller than ken...I see Frank and compare him to GSP and Sakuraba for that reason and think there were at the same level...if they were born during the same time

 

[TheMaster]

I distinctly remember seeing an interview with Hughes, a trainer or training partner where they said 200 walk around weight between fight camps but I can't find it so I'll back off that claim. But here he says he started fight week with Thiago Alves at 185, after finishing his camp.

"I walked in at 185 and have to make 171, so 14 pounds is what I’ll lose in this last week. But it’s typical. It’s not a big deal."

10 QUESTIONS WITH MATT HUGHES - Muscle & Fitness

Name someone prominent in the talent-heavy UFC welterweight division. Chances are Matt Hughes has dished them a beat down at some point. His mixed martial arts record of 436 includes a 154 record in UFC bouts, two welterweight championship victories and a ridiculous seven title defenses against...

www.muscleandfitness.com

And Alves himself said he walked at 195-200 lbs prior to that fight. He missed weight by 3 lbs but said it was because he rolled his ankle in training and couldn't cut properly.

“I wasn’t able to do anything for three days,” Alves said. “I am a really heavy guy. I walk around at 195-200 (pounds), so if I don’t keep my diet and work out really hard … even the last week before the fight, I (have to) train really hard to (try) to keep my weight low.”

Thiago Alves on feud with Matt Hughes, missing weight, title shot

Defeating longtime UFC welterweight champion Matt Hughes (42-7 MMA, 15-5 UFC) is an impressive notch on any fighter’s belt, but for Thiago Alves (20-4 MMA, 8-2 UFC), this

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EDIT: Not sure I believe this given it came from Chael and/or Frank long after retirement, but allegedly He said, ‘Chael, I’m actually 173’. And he said, ‘I’ll tell you a secret. The heaviest I ever weighed was 176. When you heard 193, that was added by the broadcast booth.'”

“The Heaviest I Have Ever Been Was 176” – Frank Shamrock Shares ‘Incredible’ ‘Secret’ With Chael Sonnen More Than a Decade After His Illustrious Career

UFC legend Frank Shamrock dispels Chael Sonnen's long-held misconception of his heaviest weight react during his fighting days.

www.essentiallysports.com

Yeah that story is nonsense, it didn't didn't from Frank and secondly weigh-ins are by the athletic commission not the broadcast booth. So we have to believe there was a conspiracy throughout his career to hide 20 Ibs of weight lol. Also we are not blind you can see his physique even in Pancrase he does not look particularly smaller than Bas.

I remember also when Frank had his last fight with Nick Diaz and Nick wanted it at catchweight 180Ibs (so Nick wouldn't have to beat his idol at his 'full' weight class, thus preserving his status somewhat in his mind even when beating him). Frank said in the preflight "I havent been 180 Ibs since high-school".

 

[DesiredUserName]

He beats Couture. Other than that, the other fights would be a toss-up.

 

[pankrat]

I don't buy it sorry. Hughes was no way 200 Ibs at training camp he was maybe that at walk around weight and out of shape between camps. Frank was far more muscular and a bit taller than Hughes as well there is no way Hughes was bigger. The difference is Frank was always in shape.

Could Frank have fought at WW today with a huge weight cut? Maybe. Should he or would were he still active today? I highly doubt it.

Matt Hughes, who competed at 158lbs in wrestling after college, allready 25 y.o., would be a small WW today.

I agre weight cutting standards have gotten crazy but the reality is that Frank, being pretty bulked up and still only 190lbs, would be one of if not the most undersized MW in current UFC roster. I'm prettty sure he would adjust and compete at WW if he was active today.

 

[suprah]

.he was the first real complete well rounded fighter I saw at that time

Marco Ruas says hold my beer

 

[suprah]

Yeah that story is nonsense, it didn't didn't from Frank and secondly weigh-ins are by the athletic commission not the broadcast booth. So we have to believe there was a conspiracy throughout his career to hide 20 Ibs of weight lol. Also we are not blind you can see his physique even in Pancrase he does not look particularly smaller than Bas.

I remember also when Frank had his last fight with Nick Diaz and Nick wanted it at catchweight 180Ibs (so Nick wouldn't have to beat his idol at his 'full' weight class, thus preserving his status somewhat in his mind even when beating him). Frank said in the preflight "I havent been 180 Ibs since high-school".

Frank fought heavyweights diaz was bigger and fought welterweights most of the time. Even called Gomi little. That little guy busted him up tho and theres nothing tough about fighting people smaller than you as both diaz bros have done most of their careers.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

I think he would have lost a Tito rematch but beaten everybody other than Couture. Could have had great success and been the poster boy for 185 though, I think couture, Belfort (on a good night), chuck and Tito would have given him problems once they all reached their primes but frank could have had a very successful career at middleweight instead of fighting them.

 

[textwarrior]

Marco Ruas says hold my beer

Forgot about him, he was good, he would not tell his age but it said Vale Tudo was his art I think, he also said he was Italian but later I think I found out he was from Brazil. His stomping those feet and yeah he was doing triangles ...him vs Oleg was a fight to watch.

 

[textwarrior]

Thanks, what I remember most about that card was Brad Kholer's visious ko. The UFC used that ko in their intro for many years, it became somewhat iconic.

This is it .....

He was only 5'5 but had allot of KO power...built like a tank, this fight made me interested from that point on it was not much though.

 

[pankrat]

Marco Ruas says hold my beer

Forgot about him, he was good, he would not tell his age but it said Vale Tudo was his art I think, he also said he was Italian but later I think I found out he was from Brazil. His stomping those feet and yeah he was doing triangles ...him vs Oleg was a fight to watch.

Plenty of fighters were fairly well-rounded by 98-99, skillwise at least as much as him. What Frank truly brought to the table was superior cardio, which is what allowed him handle Tito or Tamura

 

[Haj01]

Bound by blood even though they are not blood brothers.

 

[nonoob]

Frank, like all the other greats, could beat anyone on any night.

One of my most cherished memories was watching Frank beat the shit out of Tito live in Lake Charles Louisiana (I was cage side in the 4 row). I still can't believe I was there, it's like a dream now. Nothing but legends on that card btw and it was only like $25 for practically front row seats. I truly miss those MMA days.

Rock On PF - what a F'n night !

Stars aligned like hell for you to be a fan that heard about the fights, had $25, &
was close enough to drive to. Also, being able to shirk life's responsibilities to see such a blast of an event that it's still talked about decades later!

No coulda shoulda woulda about it, you were there Sherbro !
​

 

[textwarrior]

Plenty of fighters were fairly well-rounded by 98-99, skillwise at least as much as him. What Frank truly brought to the table was superior cardio, which is what allowed him handle Tito or Tamura

yeah I think Frank was wise in not giving Tito a rematch. A plus for the lions den fighters...at least one of them beat him...I remember rooting for frank...it was one of the best fights I saw at that time because Frank had to have his A game...Funny thing though, Ken acting like the Alpha male loss to him who gave his lions den two middle fingers all the time...part of the reason I hated Tito at that time and never was a fan of Tito but I really wanted Frank to win that fight...Frank's wife was in the crowd throwing punches in the air to signal to hit Tito to Frank...we all felt the same because it was a fight of his life to win that.

 

[Levi_]

As far as beating everyone on that list, maybe not. As far as beating everyone Tito beat, yes.

Remember Tito was way bigger than Frank; Frank could have easily been the MW champ where he never would have fought Randy. He may have even been able to make WW.

Not many people know about Frank because that was the time the UFC was in the dark; it had been removed from PPV. People know the early era with Gracie and the later Pride era, but yes, fans don't know much about Frank these days.

 

[savemgs]

My

I agree, the early days and all the way through to the end of Strikeforce and Pride, it was the best. We wasn't force fed MMA all the time so it was much more exciting too imo. Also the refs let the fighters finish fights, there wasn't near as many premature stoppages. It also allowed for more crazy comeback wins.

Absolutely, those early days of MMA, including Strikeforce and Pride, had a unique charm.

 

[BowserJr]

In the not-so-distant year of 1999, just before the new millennium dawned, Frank Shamrock stood at the pinnacle of his MMA career. Unfortunately, his legacy has somewhat faded from UFC history, largely due to Dana White's disdain and the lack of awareness among newer fans. However, let's delve into a hypothetical scenario where Frank, instead of retiring, continues his journey post his victory over Tito Ortiz.
Imagine Frank Shamrock taking on the next seven opponents that Tito faced after their encounter. How would he fare in this gauntlet? Let's discuss.
But before we dive into the matchups, it's crucial to address a potential opponent in this alternate timeline - the Iceman, Chuck Liddell and Vitor Belfort While it's likely that Frank would have faced them had he continued competing, they are not included in this list. The reason being, Tito Ortiz consistently avoided facing Chuck for years, and the
Belfort matchup never materialized at the time. If you'd like to add a bonus round considering Liddell and Belfort, feel free to do so.
Here's the lineup of potential opponents for Frank Shamrock.
Note during the specified time frame, Frank would be around 27 to 30 years old.

• Wanderlei Silva
• Yuki Kondo
• Evan Tanner
• Elvis Sinosic
• Vladimir Matyushenko
• Ken Shamrock
• Randy Couture

I honestly believe that Frank's most formidable opponents on this list are Matyushenko and Couture, particularly from a martial arts perspective. Both Frank and his adopted brother Ken have historically struggled against opponents who can match or exceed them in wrestling prowess. Despite Ken's age and declining physical condition, the psychological aspect is evident. This notion is supported by evidence from the 'Bound by Blood' documentary, where Ken's influence still evidently looms large over Frank. Decades later, Ken's ability to emotionally impact Frank is clear, as he managed to reduce him to tears. Not passing judgment on either individual; both brothers clearly have their own issues. However, Ken seems to have a significant presence in Frank's psyche. That being said, Ken doesn't seem to be affected at all by them when it comes down to competing.

The fight with Wanderlei wouldve been fucking amazing. I think that fight was actually offered to Frank before he officially retired. I lean towards Silva winning

He beats most of the rest. Matushenko and Randy might be too big. They were legit HWs.

Also the original weight class was 200. Frank probably would've moved down to 185 before fight those 2 guys.

In which case he likely fights Bustamante which also would've been amazing

 

[mkt]

Frank was too small to dominate the newer breed of LHWs in the early 2000s. That said, he'd have a pretty good chance against early Couture who was submitted by Enson Inoue and 2 other guys. In fact, Frank beat Enson. But by 2002-3, fighters like Randy and Tito had evolved with better submission defense. At that point, he'd be fighting fighting more modern LHWs who were 1 to 2 weight classes bigger. That's too much to ask of anyone.

I'd say in 1999 he'd have a decent chance of beating any of the fighters mentioned. He beat Tito that year. After that, his chances would become more slim each passing year.