Fracking, Texas and drought relief

[IGIT]

hello everyone!

The state of Texas is in a state of pain.

We almost have to invent a new word to convey the sense of a drought this devastating: 98% of the state is experiencing drought, with areas of “severe” and “exceptional” drought.

Farmers and ranchers are selling their herds. Yet in some towns, the fracking industry is being allowed to use 50% of the water.

http://protectingourwaters.wordpres...-frack-the-climate-approach-water-bankruptcy/

i think Texans, of course, should be able to do what they want with their water supply - whether it be keeping their lawns green or taking long showers or filling their swimming pools...or using massive amounts of their water supply to enrich themselves by fracking. it's their call.

my question, though, is whether they should be able to indulge in fracking on one hand and on the other hand ask for Federal handouts to deal with the calamitous drought they're being afflicted with?

i get that Texas is a magnificent state because of their fierce sense of individualism, but if they have decided to use their remaining water in their depleted reservoirs on fracking, why should the taxpayers of the nation pay for it?

- IGIT

 

[Kevin Rudd]

it does seem wasteful. they should build de-sal plants imo to esure this does not happen again.

And by they why not have the fracking companies pay for it?

 

[IGIT]

it does seem wasteful. they should build de-sal plants imo to esure this does not happen again.

And by they why not have the fracking companies pay for it?

hiya Kevin,

during the advent of fracking, there was sort of an understanding that corporations would recycle the water they were using during the fracking process...but this cut down on profits (of course), so they basically stopped doing it.

Nicot found that the vast majority of water, about 92 percent, used to frack Barnett Shale wells in 2011 was “consumed”—never to return to the aquifer or reservoir again. Only around 5 percent of all the water has been reused or recycled “for the past few years.” The remainder, about 3 percent, came from brackish water sources. The figures suggest that the industry is making very little progress in conserving water, despite a push from regulators and lawmakers to encourage the practice.

At one time, Nicot said, companies were doing more to recycle.

“They started doing it even at a monetary loss,” he said. “Then they realized well it doesn’t seem like we are going anywhere with that recycling thing so let’s cut our losses and let’s not recycle anymore.”

http://www.texasobserver.org/study-little-progress-made-recycling-water-fracking/

recycling water used in fracking is not a "pro-business" idea, so its not surprising that the initiative was discarded.

that's fine with me, Texans can do what they wish with the water they have left - but i don't see why the state is able to apply for and receive drought relief.

it's like Texans are having it both ways, you know?

they have really low taxes.

they allow their energy companies to act as if the water shortage in Texas has no relation to their activities, and reap both the profits and the jobs that fracking brings.

and then they come to the Federal government for relief from the drought, sucking up taxdollars.

it doesn't seem quite right to me.

- IGIT

 

[Snackbar]

it does seem wasteful. they should build de-sal plants imo to esure this does not happen again.

And by they why not have the fracking companies pay for it?

The water used in fracing is not the responsibility of the frac company, they are just the service provider. The producer is responsible for supplying the operation with water, so Shell, exxon, Apache, etc front the bill.

It is good to see people focusing on the real issue with fracing (water consumption) instead of the gasland bs narrative.

Desalination is only cost effective in coastal areas, so it doesnt see alot of use, but alot of explorers are developing produced water systems which are an excellent alternative to depleting our fresh water.

At the end of the day the only people to blame are the politicians who obviously arent regulating their water usage for these wells.

And that sites facts are incorrect, 60-90% of the water is not left down hole, producers want as clean a well as possible, they recover most of the fluid and reuse in alot of areas.

 

[IGIT]

And that sites facts are incorrect, 60-90% of the water is not left down hole, producers want as clean a well as possible, they recover most of the fluid and reuse in alot of areas.

hello Snackbar,

the authors of the study, researchers at the University of Texas

 

[OldGoat]

hello everyone!

http://protectingourwaters.wordpres...-frack-the-climate-approach-water-bankruptcy/

i think Texans, of course, should be able to do what they want with their water supply - whether it be keeping their lawns green or taking long showers or filling their swimming pools...or using massive amounts of their water supply to enrich themselves by fracking. it's their call.

my question, though, is whether they should be able to indulge in fracking on one hand and on the other hand ask for Federal handouts to deal with the calamitous drought they're being afflicted with?

i get that Texas is a magnificent state because of their fierce sense of individualism, but if they have decided to use their remaining water in their depleted reservoirs on fracking, why should the taxpayers of the nation pay for it?

- IGIT

why not have other suckers pay for it? If you get a cookie everytime you put your hand out you might as well always have your hand out.

 

[ruthless robert]

hello everyone!

http://protectingourwaters.wordpres...-frack-the-climate-approach-water-bankruptcy/

i think Texans, of course, should be able to do what they want with their water supply - whether it be keeping their lawns green or taking long showers or filling their swimming pools...or using massive amounts of their water supply to enrich themselves by fracking. it's their call.

my question, though, is whether they should be able to indulge in fracking on one hand and on the other hand ask for Federal handouts to deal with the calamitous drought they're being afflicted with?

i get that Texas is a magnificent state because of their fierce sense of individualism, but if they have decided to use their remaining water in their depleted reservoirs on fracking, why should the taxpayers of the nation pay for it?

- IGIT

I work for a fracking company, at work right now as i type this actually. I know we use a lot of water to frac our wells, however for the amount of energy used does anyone know how much water is used in a powerplant for the same amount of energy? How about a coal or nuclear plant?

Fracking use of water when compared to the amount of energy output per gallon of water used fracking is one of the most water efficient forms of energy. Look it up.

also, i dont think the government should pay for it however how is it any different than California going on a spending spree and creating an unatainable financial plan then have the governement bail them out? Or Detroit in the same manner?

I dont like any form of governement hand outs HOWEVER im only okay with them in the instance that the government gets something good in return, in this case AN ABUNDANCE OF HIGH PAYING JOBS and those people pay and abundance of taxes.

thats a lot better deal for the governement than just paying government leeches like gangstas in the ghetto getting free shit and not paying amything back.....

.

.

 

[IGIT]

why not have other suckers pay for it? If you get a cookie everytime you put your hand out you might as well always have your hand out.

hello OldGoat,

that's definitely another way of looking at it, Goat, but if you condone this, then you kind of condone Government handouts in general.

fair enough.

- IGIT

 

[emax]

I don't see what the big deal is regarding fracking and what people are panicking over. If you hate that, come at me bro.

 

[Josh]

I'm currently posting from a frac site. But I'm in a province with an abundant water supply.

As for the question in the OP, it seems a little more complex, and I would need more information to pass judgement. How does the output from Texas factor into the USA's national energy strategy? Based on that, it could very well be reasonable for Texas to expect federal participation in dealing with the water shortage.

But I think the prudent thing, from a social policy and environmental standpoint, would be to use federal aid to source new water supplies or alternate frac'ing technologies, and leave the Texas water for it's conventional (and necessary) utilities.

 

[OldGoat]

hello OldGoat,

that's definitely another way of looking at it, Goat, but if you condone this, then you kind of condone Government handouts in general.

fair enough.

- IGIT

I condone exploiting the economy for your advantage. If people don't like it they can put in robust anti-corruption oversight. And it's silly to say if you like a subset of X you must like all of X.

 

[Snackbar]

hello Snackbar,

the authors of the study, researchers at the University of Texas

 

[IGIT]

hi Ruthless,

I work for a fracking company, at work right now as i type this actually. I know we use a lot of water to frac our wells, however for the amount of energy used does anyone know how much water is used in a powerplant for the same amount of energy? How about a coal or nuclear plant?

Fracking use of water when compared to the amount of energy output per gallon of water used fracking is one of the most water efficient forms of energy. Look it up.

the difference, as i understand it, is that most power plants are located near sources of water, and preponderance of that water is returned to its source. this is not the case with fracking - the water does not return to the aquifer or reservoir its drawn from. the water is gone, and in the midst of a historic drought, that seems imprudent to me.

wouldn't you agree?

also, i dont think the government should pay for it however how is it any different than California going on a spending spree and creating an unatainable financial plan then have the governement bail them out? Or Detroit in the same manner?

nope, i'm with you here - and i agree i don't see the distinction at all.

I dont like any form of governement hand outs HOWEVER im only okay with them in the instance that the government gets something good in return, in this case AN ABUNDANCE OF HIGH PAYING JOBS and those people pay and abundance of taxes.

what i don't understand is why doesn't Texas just raise the rate of corporate taxation within their own state and provide relief themselves? why ask the Federal Government to do so? again, i'm fine with Texas willfully using its remaining water supply on fracking, but i'm unclear why they can't pay for the resulting water shortage problems themselves?

- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

hi Ruthless,



the difference, as i understand it, is that most power plants are located near sources of water, and that water is returned to its source. this is not the case with fracking - the water does not return to the aquifer or reservoir its drawn from.



nope, i'm with you here - and i agree i don't see the distinction at all.


what i don't understand is why doesn't Texas just raise the rate of corporate taxation within their own state and provide relief themselves? why ask the Federal Government to do so?

- IGIT

Why not? Foolish people don't take full advantage of programs or benefits available to them. You don't become 100 billion companies by being foolish.

 

[Snackbar]

Its hard to compare frac water consumption with coal plant consumption.
There are something like 600 active coal plants in the US and they consume maybe 1b gallons per year.

There are 10s of thousands of wells across the US that are fraced multiple times, many of which are duds.

Coal water consumption/kw is easily calculated, a gas wells water consumption/kw created from the output product is far more difficult.

 

[IGIT]

Reread your article, the exact words are "60-90% of the water is left deep under ground"
Which is untrue

hi SNack,

the article in my OP doesn't seem particularly well sourced, i only cited it in reference to the drought that's occuring in Texas (which is not debatable). honestly, i could have used any number of news sources for that part of my OP. my bad, Snackbar.

the relevant fact regarding the water that's used in the fracking process is gone, and in the midst of a drought, that seems sort of goofy to me. the idea that you could willfully continue to frac in the midst of a water shortage and then apply for drought relief from the Federal Government seems especially nonsensical to me.

don't you agree?

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

I condone exploiting the economy for your advantage. If people don't like it they can put in robust anti-corruption oversight. And it's silly to say if you like a subset of X you must like all of X.

hi Goat,

ok, like i said, i accept that POV. if you're all for citizens who maximize extracting monies from the Federal Government, i can see why you'd be alright with this.

right on.

- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

hi Goat,

ok, like i said, i accept that POV. if you're all for citizens who maximize extracting monies from the Federal Government, i can see why you'd be alright with this.

right on.

- IGIT

It's not necessarily right nor wrong. It's rational in an economic sense.

 

[Snackbar]

hi SNack,

the article in my OP doesn't seem particularly well sourced, i only cited it in reference to the drought that's occuring in Texas (which is not debatable). honestly, i could have used any number of news sources for that part of my OP. my bad, Snackbar.

the relevant fact regarding the water that's used in the fracking process is gone, and in the midst of a drought, that seems sort of goofy to me. the idea that you could willfully continue to frac in the midst of a water shortage and then apply for drought relief from the Federal Government seems especially nonsensical to me.

don't you agree?

- IGIT

I do agree that it is absurd to continue using the fresh water supply, and the state has no one to blame but themselves. Up here in Canada the water usage in oil and gas operations is highly regulated as it should be.

I dont know how the relief program is set up, does it only apply to an act of god, or does the relief cover man made droughts? Either way i assume they will get the relief they need, but will not learn from it.

 

[IGIT]

I don't see what the big deal is regarding fracking and what people are panicking over. If you hate that, come at me bro.

hello Emax,

no one, as far as i know, is panicing in this thread.

we're just talking about whether a state, which is in the midst of a historic drought and parched for water, should be able to jettison vast quantities of their remaining drinkable water in fracking whilst applying for Federal Aid to address their drought.

wouldn't this be a bit akin to giving welfare money to people who have big flatscreen TVs, Iphones, Xboxes and Air Jordans?

- IGIT