Founding Fathers, they didn't know what they would not know

[Tone C]

 

[Stoic1]

You will need the full cohort of WR Constituitional scholars if you want some real answers.

 

[sanguinius]

The founding fathers would be embarrassed with today's current administration.

They’d see democrats for the anti-American traitors they are and feel nothing but hate for them.

 

[Aurelian]

They would absolutely hate our two party system.

From John Adams

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties... It is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

George Washington

"The spirit of party...serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration."

“The spirit of party, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature... But it is the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.”

“It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another... opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...”

The dangers of a two party system was actually one of his main focuses during his 1796 farewell address. He was pretty fucking bang on I'd say.

 

[johnsmithjohnson]

You will need the full cohort of WR Constituitional scholars if you want some real answers.

I've looked over there...it seems to be mainly college drop outs and rage baiters having psuedo intellectual arguments which devolve down into passive aggerssive questions and shit flinging mixed in with vague "outrageous double downing" to get attention
It's like thet all shoved the art of the deal and Shane gillis up their ass and they are being puppetted.
In general not all of them.

 

[Stoic1]

I've looked over there...it seems to be mainly college drop outs and rage baiters having psuedo intellectual arguments which devolve down into passive aggerssive questions and shit flinging mixed in with vague "outrageous double downing" to get attention
It's like thet all shoved the art of the deal and Shane gillis up their ass and they are being puppetted.
In general not all of them.

Wrong.

The WR has the finest collection of Constitutional Scholars, political analysts, virologists, economists, relationship experts, sociologist, philosophers, military strategists, foreign policy consultants, and theologians the world has ever seen.

Just ask them.

 

[Fedorgasm]

In the parlance of the time, bear arms means to carry a weapon. Which would include guns since they funny specifically day not including guns. I forgive their artful language since it's pretty easy to understand. Also just try and form a militia and report back on your success.

Yeah I think they said arms because they didn't know what weapons we'd be using in the future.

I mean what if our cell phones could emit a frequency that makes a person's brain explode? So nobody would bother carrying guns anymore. The founding fathers wanted us to be able to use whatever weapons we needed to fight against the government if we had to.

 

[jeff7b9]

They knew corruption was coming no matter what and wrote a document that has lasted 250 years.

I'd say they did ok.

 

[IanEdwards]

I've said many times on here before.....ironically, the Consitution will be the direct reason for the downfall of the United States of America. The unwillingness and general inability to modify things for changing times will decapitate the country eventually.

The "the document to end all documents" is an American ego thing that will sadly be her own downfall.

such a good point, the obsession with the Constitution is a projection of American exceptionalism in general.

 

[oldshadow]

And took keep the American military out of American cities. That's why they did it. They knew, especially Washington that some jackass would invent reasons to send military into cities to seize permeant power by intimidation.

Honestly right now, I cannot believe what is happening is allowed. I live in the Virgin Islands I barely get back anymore. The country has becoming increasingly passive. Paramilitary and military are occupying cities setting check points, arresting people for insane reasons and no one seems to have an issue. It's virtue signaling with this no kings day nonsense.

We know Epstein and trump and prince Andrew down here and their enigmas. Prince has to untoyal himself for the shit they were doing and how much it keeps leaking out, those three were very blaise about it. I'm not saying but you get the idea, jimmy saville loved enigmas as well. The world all seems to know this except sections of the United States. That's all I will say.

Never read about the wiskey rebellion in school huh.

 

[Sinister]

So this thread will probably die a slow death on the mayberry vine, or it might get pushed to the war room where it will become an endless argument about who is or isn't a dumbass, but the thoughts are buzzing in me bonnet and I want to release them into the wild and free myself from their stings.

The framers of the constitution and the bill of rights did an amazing job. Madison, Hamilton, Belushi, Franklin, Chase, Washington, the two Morris brothers, et. al.

But Nostradamus, Verne and Gladwell weren't there to help them know what 2025 and beyond was going to be like. They couldn't have foreseen a society that includes worldwide travel being possible in a day, instantaneous communication around the globe, the ability for multiple countries to unleash worldwide destructive power, the modern capabilities of high powered machine guns and advanced ammunitions, the internet, AI, advancements in medicine and nutrition adding massive longevity to our lifespans, a greedy leisure society with a service based economy, and the level of modern political corruption, among other things. Feel free to add the multitude of "other things" I am forgetting.

If they were unfrozen from the ice and given super serum, another thing they didn't know we wold have access to, what changes or additions would they make to the founding documents to deal with all of the above?

Fudge I'll be lucky if this gets 2 replies and avoids the wasteland, but at least the hornets our out of my skull.

I dont think this is accurate, but maybe not for the same reasons. Yes some things would have absolutely bewildered them with regards to tech and arms development. However, they understood that people do and will change. Some of those Framers were very young. Hamilton was in his early 20's when we often refer to his efforts. And they themselves were in a rapidly changing world.

You should read some of their letters that they wrote to friends or each other. This was on their minds a lot. Check out the old John Adams series. It's not entirely accurate, but it does a good job of showing just how contentious things were and overall societal tones:

 

[oldshadow]

I've said many times on here before.....ironically, the Consitution will be the direct reason for the downfall of the United States of America. The unwillingness and general inability to modify things for changing times will decapitate the country eventually.

The "the document to end all documents" is an American ego thing that will sadly be her own downfall. Biting off noses, spiting faces and all that shit...

It was formed to be changeable as need but the requirements prevent it from being destroyed by flavor of the day politics.

The central idea that it doesn't give us any rights as we are born with them is its strongest point.

 

[Natural Order]

It was formed to be changeable as need but the requirements prevent it from being destroyed by flavor of the day politics.

The central idea that it doesn't give us any rights as we are born with them is its strongest point.

I'm sure some halfway intelligent people can figure out a way to keep those general ideas while updating things a few hundred years....

This won't happen of course.

 

[oldshadow]

I'm sure some halfway intelligent people can figure out a way to keep those general ideas while updating things a few hundred years....

This won't happen of course.

Look at the 27th amendment and how it was revived and passed in 1992.

 

[Sinister]

Yeah I think they said arms because they didn't know what weapons we'd be using in the future.

I mean what if our cell phones could emit a frequency that makes a person's brain explode? So nobody would bother carrying guns anymore. The founding fathers wanted us to be able to use whatever weapons we needed to fight against the government if we had to.

No they didnt. The Founding Fathers were not enabling insurrection against the Government by any means. Their intention was to reinforce the Government with Militia should anything happen to armories, which this DID happen during the Shays Rebellion. Armories were captured and it drastically effected readiness.

The idea that a Government made a Constituronal Amendment to do something wholly illegal is incredibly asinine.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

For their time, the Founding Fathers were progressive radicals and extremists. The woke-ists of all wokesters.

The conservatives of that time period were all about social hierarchy, the monarchy and the church. On the wrong side of history, as always.

 

[Sinister]

For their time, the Founding Fathers were progressive radicals and extremists. The woke-ists of all wokesters.

The conservatives of that time period were all about social hierarchy, the monarchy and the church. On the wrong side of history, as always.

Check out the clip I posted above where Jefferson tells Hamilton of his aversion to central power funded by capital interests after having visited France.



So wokeified!!!

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Check out the clip I posted above where Jefferson tells Hamilton of his aversion to central power funded by capital interests after having visited France.



So wokeified!!!

Jefferson was definitely the wokest of all, despite his owning of slaves.

They were pre-capitalist so it's hard to call them "leftists" in the modern sense but Jefferson at least was very much in favor of the French Revolution so he was undoubtedly progressive.

 

[Sinister]

Jefferson was definitely the wokest of all, despite his owning of slaves.

They were pre-capitalist so it's hard to call them "leftists" in the modern sense but Jefferson at least was very much in favor of the French Revolution so he was undoubtedly progressive.

Well, I've mentioned this before but I do think they were capitalism believers. This goes back to the entire point of the Federalist Papers and that the US Constition was essentially a guarantee of rights...to white Christian landowners. I dont remember if its accurate that the conversation happened between Adam's, Franklin, and Jefferson where Jefferson decried the evils of slavery or not, but Hamilton had a mind to yoke the greed of the wealthy class in the Northeast. Hence that conversation about the concentration of power in the 3rd clip in my post above. And in the 2nd clip it is shown that Hamilton was bent on US Imperialism, competing with Europe. He felt we needed the capitalists to pull it off and the Consitution is a collection of concessions that protect that class better than it protects the population. So yeah, being black back then:



They ended up just forming a new aristocracy, which was essentially adopting the plan of the British had they win the Revolutionary War:

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I'm sure some halfway intelligent people can figure out a way to keep those general ideas while updating things a few hundred years....

This won't happen of course.

The constitution is pretty good, it was just designed for a very different world. If they amended it to correspond with the reality of modern governing it would mean more.

When the nuclear age began and presidents had to make decisions in the blink of an eye about launching city-obliterating weapons, the idea that congress could control acts of war was over.

At that moment the U.S. needed, basically, an amended constitution - or a new constitution representing a 2nd republic - maybe one that included Roosevelt’s new bill of rights.

They decided to continue on with the old one, knowing they would have to ignore parts of it in order to exist as a world power. They chose that option and it’s been eroded now to the point where it’s not a very effective instrument…