Found a study on how important outweighing your opponent is for success in MMA and Boxing

[Legendary]

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I think once you get around 400 pounds, you are usually just too slow to be competitive in fighting and 250 pound dudes can still knock you out.

 

[froggyluv]

So Size DOES matter...?!

Could my Wife have lied....

 

[CanadianKobold]

Weightclasses are a handicap

 

[Tchernobog]

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Yeah, diminishing returns is a thing.

 

[ernestventures]

For me, solving the weight cut issue is the single greatest thing that can happen to MMA. It is really madness athletes killing themselves to make weigh to later kill themselves fighting. Without that weight cutting, we could have greater fights.

But unfortunately weight cutting is so internalized in Mma's reality that changing it will change the entire game (I believe for better)

You could do regular weight ins in the month of the fight and random checks.

And actually, why not weight in athletes just before the fight too? Just for the record. Give the athete a range of weight and a threshold that he could miss. For exemple, 160-170 class, the athlete should weight between it, and could miss until 180. If he misses, he will move up next fight, lost a percentage of his purse, nullify the title...

 

[Legendary]

For me, solving the weight cut issue is the single greatest thing that can happen to MMA. It is really madness athletes killing themselves to make weigh to later kill themselves fighting. Without that weight cutting, we could have greater fights.

But unfortunately weight cutting is so internalized in Mma's reality that changing it will change the entire game (I believe for better)

You could do regular weight ins in the month of the fight and random checks.

And actually, why not weight in athletes just before the fight too? Just for the record. Give the athete a range of weight and a threshold that he could miss. For exemple, 160-170 class, the athlete should weight between it, and could miss until 180. If he misses, he will move up next fight, lost a percentage of his purse, nullify the title...

In California they weigh them the day of the fight and the information is listed publicly. They also are flagged if they go significantly over 10% rehydration. I think its why the UFC rarely goes there compared to back in the day. I remember Marlon Moraes got flagged because he weighed 165 fighting at 135.

Conspiracy time: they don't wanna fix the problem because dehydrated fighters get KO'd easier, which leads to more highlight reel knockouts. UFC's model is to churn and burn through fighters.

 

[Harlekin]

"A good big man usually beats a great little man"

- old boxing saying

Sure guys like Pacquiao, RJJ, Usyk often dispelled that notion but look at Loma vs. Rigondeaux for a perfect example of this trend.

Rigo was an undefeated Cuban champion that considered a p4p talent at the time, but when he moved up against Loma, he was styled on and pieced up until he quit on the stool

Rigondeaux also was 8 years older and already 36-37, which is damn old at that weight class.
Stylewise Loma was terrible for him, too.

Rigondeaux was like the best boxer relying way too much on his left hand.
A master at pulling everybody into it. Just not Loma.
But Loma likes to fight on the inside and nothing is stopping him from that, if he is the bigger man.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

"A good big man usually beats a great little man"

- old boxing saying

Sure guys like Pacquiao, RJJ, Usyk often dispelled that notion but look at Loma vs. Rigondeaux for a perfect example of this trend.

Rigo was an undefeated Cuban champion that considered a p4p talent at the time, but when he moved up against Loma, he was styled on and pieced up until he quit on the stool

Great example
Marquez v Floyd is another
Floyd would win if similar sized, but his extra dimensions and weight made it a really easy fight against a great opponent

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

Great example
Marquez v Floyd is another
Floyd would win if similar sized, but his extra dimensions and weight made it a really easy fight against a great opponent

Floyd was in rare form that night, that pull counter before ducking Marquez's return fire all in one seamless motion

 

[IsNormal]

Six weight checks, 3 scheduled and 3 random. 6 weeks out, 3 week out and fight night. Plus 3 random checks. Miss weight means 10% fine. Miss all 6 fight is cancelled and you can not fight in this weight class.

Sounds good to me.
I kinda like that missing one of these is just a fine,
Cause when someone suggestions the fight should be cancelled on fight night - that would cause outrage among fans, and UFC would desperately want to avoid last minute cancellations.

 

[Tweak896]

But every day I keep reading here how bad it is for chin and cardio like they lose more. Yeah this is an obvious study, but cool to see how much percentage odds they get with every % gained.

 

[IsNormal]

But every day I keep reading here how bad it is for chin and cardio like they lose more

Yeah, I think there's been some cases where analysts and fighters have argued a guy lost cause he cut too much and got slow and chinny.
Seems like it's been blown out of proportion, as some now seem to take that it's a general rule and it's almost 50-50 if a big cut is a benefit or not.

Good to see this study set the record straight and show that in general cutting is an advantage.

 

[DalchaLungiambula]

It's not the weight per se, it's the fact that fighters who are rehydrating more, are likely doing so because they have a bigger frame.

A 5 foot 10 MW will be less likely to weigh more by the time of the fight, than a 6 foot 3 MW with a 6 inch reach advantage.

That's likely why the edge is even greater in boxing.

At least in MMA, if the shorter fighter is a wrestler, they can get the fight to the ground, and circumvent the size disadvantage.

Boxers are just stuck getting jabbed by someone whose arms are a quarter of a foot longer

 

[sonhow]

just saying

 

[Tweak896]

Yeah, I think there's been some cases where analysts and fighters have argued a guy lost cause he cut too much and got slow and chinny.
Seems like it's been blown out of proportion, as some now seem to take that it's a general rule and it's almost 50-50 if a big cut is a benefit or not.

Good to see this study set the record straight and show that in general cutting is an advantage.

Honestly only seems to effect guys cutting way too much like a Rumble, but even then it probably helped most of the time at WW when he was still taking heads off. Still seems like it's repeated every thread but statistics say weight cutting is what increases your chances to win. Also hear Joe Rogan always go off on why fighters shouldn't cut weight like it's so much benefit.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

Floyd was in rare form that night, that pull counter before ducking Marquez's return fire all in one seamless motion

Yeah it was like he never was away
His timing was impeccable

 

[r-harper-1]

They should eliminate the dehydrating altogether. Its a simple thing to do IMO.

Six weight checks. Fighters must weigh within the range of their weight class. Make each class a 10 lb range. Until the top 3 LHW, HW & SWH.

Fly 136-145
BW 146-155
FW 156-165
LW 166-175
WW 176-185
SWW 186-195
MW 195-205
SMW 206-215
LHW 216-230
HW 230-265
SHW 266 +

Six weight checks, 3 scheduled and 3 random. 6 weeks out, 3 week out and fight night. Plus 3 random checks. Miss weight means 10% fine. Miss all 6 fight is cancelled and you can not fight in this weight class.

Fighters will not fight in a class they can't maintain their weight within because they can't afford to do so.
Fighters will also be able to fight more without having to "Recover" from a weight cut. Even fighters who win with zero damage need time from the weight cuts. Eliminating this will let guys fight 6 times a year if they want.

If they make the weight , it’s all good

 

[ernestventures]

In California they weigh them the day of the fight and the information is listed publicly. They also are flagged if they go significantly over 10% rehydration. I think its why the UFC rarely goes there compared to back in the day. I remember Marlon Moraes got flagged because he weighed 165 fighting at 135.

Conspiracy time: they don't wanna fix the problem because dehydrated fighters get KO'd easier, which leads to more highlight reel knockouts. UFC's model is to churn and burn through fighters.

I agree that they don't wanna fix it, and it's really messed up. There has to be some nasty things going on preventing other states do what California did.

I don't know if it's exactly knockouts due to dehydration, but also weigh bullies knocking the opponent out or outperforming them and looking unstoppable.

 

[BroScienceTalkatWork]

It's not the weight per se, it's the fact that fighters who are rehydrating more, are likely doing so because they have a bigger frame.

A 5 foot 10 MW will be less likely to weigh more by the time of the fight, than a 6 foot 3 MW with a 6 inch reach advantage.

That's likely why the edge is even greater in boxing.

At least in MMA, if the shorter fighter is a wrestler, they can get the fight to the ground, and circumvent the size disadvantage.

Boxers are just stuck getting jabbed by someone whose arms are a quarter of a foot longer

no it is the weight. It’s exactly that

A 6 3 frame in a low weight class has less muscle and is actually less likely to fight with a weight advantage

 

[Lee Danger]

One of the large arguments against steroids is the combination of how dangerous it is for the person doing it and the unfair advantage it gives them, but I've stood by for a long time on the opinion that extreme weight cutting has much potentially worse adverse effects and arguably gives even more of an advantage.

The only problem is, that's at the more maximums, but the minimum line of weight cutting is a lot more grey than the minimum line of taking PED's, so the latter is just easier to draw a line on and enforce.

the problem is that PEDs also help in losing weight and mantain muscle mass so i don't tent to separate the two things.