Forrest Griffin is criminally underrated

[Andreh]

Underrated?! He is OVERRATED.

 

[Claude]

Lol, so Shogun gets every excuse possible from you, but a fight FOUR YEARS LATER means nothing in terms of where Forrest was at himself.

Classic Claude

He was still performing. He beat Tito and Franklin beforehand.

 

[Claude]

Eh, I take issue with this comparison.

I don't think it was particularly clear at the time Forrest won the belt from Rampage that he would have gotten beaten by every top fighter in the division.

I agree that Forrest wasn't necessarily the 'strongest' fighter in the division at that time... but the belt changed so many times I think LHW 2007/2008 was really a game of hot potato depending on matchups.

Let's look at some of the top 5 (mixing in some of the top 10) fighters in no particular order:
- Rashad Evans
- Quinton Jackson
- Lyoto Machida
- Wanderlei Silva
- Shogun Rua
- Chuck Liddell
- Keith Jardine

By the time Forrest lost his belt he had won against 2 of these fighters and lost to 2. Against Rashad he had a fairly successful fight until his KO, so he wasn't completely outclassed.

Rampage was decidedly not in bad shape, and while their fight was close, Forrest didn't win via flash KO but a steady effective gameplan, against one of the top fighters of that era (who I remind you outclassed Chuck and Hendo on the way to the title).

MMA math doesn't work for a reason, but if we look at the circle of wins / defeats at that time, it's unfair to discredit Forrest's win as a fluke in the LHW division. He was a legitimate top 5 fighter / champion in an era where there was no clear no. 1 until Jon Jones came along. Furthermore I think he would have had a good chance against that era's Chuck and Wanderlei based on where they were in their careers and his performance against 'Page.

By juxtaposition I think it's pretty clear that Bisping would have had very unfavorable matchups against Weidman, Romero, Jacare, Whittaker, Machida etc.

He very clearly exploited Rockhold's poor striking defense / boxing, so definitely won on skill, but we also had far more data on previous performances of his + never saw how he competed against the elite of the elite. Furthermore Rockhold started a pretty aggressive downward slide after his loss which does lower the stock of the win a little, and he arguably lost to a very very very old Dan Henderson.

Legit champ yes, since he beat the champ. Best LHW? Not by any means.

Forrest's career is basicly this: A win over an injured Shogun, and a win over Rampage. That's all he ever did that was relevant.

The rest is a mix of decent/mediocre wins and brutal losses.

 

[Claude]

Going by this standard there are only a hand full of elite fighters, which is fine, but no one is saying forest is among that handful. You proved the TS’s point.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

 

[Jew Jif Shoes]

You are not allowed to give any of Silva's opponents credit around here, as that would undercut the narrative that Silva never beat anyone of note. The only person in the history of MMA who faced legit competition was GSP. Everyone else crushed cans and/or beat out of prime, unmotivated, undersized opponents.

 

[moogie101]

An overachiever rather than overrated. Got incredibly far on grit, toughness & cardio but nowhere near the elite level.

Choking out a debuting Shogun & beating Rampage for the belt are great achievements, but then those are easily offset by getting beaten into tears by the gatekeeper Keith Jardine, smashed by Shogun in the remarch, toyed with by Anderson, starched by Rashad although admittedly after a decent two rounds.

 

[locust rising]

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

Hmmm I believe you’re playing yourself

Reread my post brother

 

[Claude]

Hmmm I believe you’re playing yourself

Reread my post brother

No need to.

You said no one is saying Forrest was elite. That's false.

 

[McDego]

Legit champ yes, since he beat the champ. Best LHW? Not by any means.

Forrest's career is basicly this: A win over an injured Shogun, and a win over Rampage. That's all he ever did that was relevant.

The rest is a mix of decent/mediocre wins and brutal losses.

You seem very upset that a guy you call a shitty fighter beat your favorite.

Excuses for days.

Shogun isn't nearly as great as you want him to be. He's actually one of the more overrated fighters in history, especially on this forum.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Well I had an idiot around here a few days ago basically tell me he thought that Dana White could defeat him in a boxing match. So yeah pretty underrated.

 

[MigitAs]

Makes his debut against fucking Dan Severn at age 22.

Saves the UFC with the Bonnar fight

Submits prime Shogun and beats Rampage to win the title in one of the most tactical performances ever by a LHW.

Put everything on the line and fought prime Anderson when everyone was terrified of him. Takes balls

5 wins against 3 former UFC champs. Pure grit and determination, wasn't born as some super athlete, all hard work. Some of the best cardio in LHW history, underrated ground game, and just one of the most likable guys in MMA. Shame his injuries led to his retirement. I am glad the UFC gave him a job.

Don’t forget the semi-entertaining slobberknocker he had with Elvis Sinosic!

 

[xelad1]

Legit champ yes, since he beat the champ. Best LHW? Not by any means.

Forrest's career is basicly this: A win over an injured Shogun, and a win over Rampage. That's all he ever did that was relevant.

The rest is a mix of decent/mediocre wins and brutal losses.

Yeah but my point was: who was the ‘best’ LHW of that era? I agree it’s easy to argue Forrest has arguably the weakest case. But every ‘top’ fighter at LHW had some questionable fights around that time.

Chuck’s aura of invincibility came from the fact that he wasn’t in pride etc etc.

I would say during that era Machida and Rashad had the tools to beat the widest set of opponents and yet both of them had some very definitive losses and only Machida had 1 contested title defense... to a Shogun who had just lost to Forrest and had a really bad fight against Mark Coleman.

 

[xelad1]

An overachiever rather than overrated. Got incredibly far on grit, toughness & cardio but nowhere near the elite level.

Choking out a debuting Shogun & beating Rampage for the belt are great achievements, but then those are easily offset by getting beaten into tears by the gatekeeper Keith Jardine, smashed by Shogun in the remarch, toyed with by Anderson, starched by Rashad although admittedly after a decent two rounds.

Eh we don’t really know how anyone in LHW would have fared against Anderson... who schooled Henderson, a man that gave Shogun 2 of his toughest fights.

Also it’s easy to mock Jardine now, but the same Jardine beat Chuck 2 fights later and was 13-2 when he fought Forrest.

 

[Here's the thing]

He's actually rated perfectly. Most people think he's a pretty shitty fighter who had a few good fights and got lucky when he one the LHW title. That's just about perfectly sums him up in my book.

 

[Bamboozled]

he "beat" a Rampage that was having a mental breakdown

even then, he didn't "beat" him, the judges gave him a shitty decision.

 

[Nobru]

Makes his debut against fucking Dan Severn at age 22.

Saves the UFC with the Bonnar fight

Submits prime Shogun and beats Rampage to win the title in one of the most tactical performances ever by a LHW.

Put everything on the line and fought prime Anderson when everyone was terrified of him. Takes balls

5 wins against 3 former UFC champs. Pure grit and determination, wasn't born as some super athlete, all hard work. Some of the best cardio in LHW history, underrated ground game, and just one of the most likable guys in MMA. Shame his injuries led to his retirement. I am glad the UFC gave him a job.

Agreed. Silva haters love to say he was a bum, but this is SO not true.

 

[Claude]

You seem very upset that a guy you call a shitty fighter beat your favorite.

Excuses for days.

Shogun isn't nearly as great as you want him to be. He's actually one of the more overrated fighters in history, especially on this forum.

You seem to have a problem with facts.

Calm down, nobody said Forrest was bad. Just not that good. Shogun is arguably the #2 LHW GOAT.

Cheers.

 

[Claude]

Yeah but my point was: who was the ‘best’ LHW of that era? I agree it’s easy to argue Forrest has arguably the weakest case. But every ‘top’ fighter at LHW had some questionable fights around that time.

Chuck’s aura of invincibility came from the fact that he wasn’t in pride etc etc.

I would say during that era Machida and Rashad had the tools to beat the widest set of opponents and yet both of them had some very definitive losses and only Machida had 1 contested title defense... to a Shogun who had just lost to Forrest and had a really bad fight against Mark Coleman.

It was a very competitive division. MMAth aside, I think Forrest was hardly ever among the best 5 LHW's in the world (skill-wise).

 

[jenlans]

He's underrated but Shogun and Rampage were always way better except on those 2 nights obviously. You gotta give it to Forrest though, his heart reminds me of Bisping's heart, Both B level fighters but were able to achieve the ultimate. They both went through hell to get the belt which was their entire goal. Respect.

 

[Ulti1]

Forrest is most underrated by Anderson Silva haters as a way to discredit Silva’s impressive win.

Forrest submitted Shogun, beat prime Rampage to become LHW champ, and was up 2-0 vs prime Rashad before getting caught.

War Forrest!
View attachment 650673

Wonder what Anderson vs rampage and Anderson vs rashad would of looked like. Been fun.