For those who think the current MMA rules favor the wrestler

[Doctor Grudge]

Then maybe the guy on the grounds needs to learn how to stop takedowns, or learn bow to fight off his back...maybe a sweep attempt?

The guy on top earned that position, the guy on the bottom has to do something about it.
Im no fan of LNP trust me but you can't blame a guy for staying where hes best sir.

Who says that the person at the bottom loses? That wasn't always the case in MMA in the 80s and 90s.

The criteria was changed by people who didn't get grappling ironically enough, and now it's being exploited to squeek out decisions.

Laying on someones guard and winning on control is a favorable wrestling-centric rule, so it has nothing to do with whether the guy is good enough to stop the takedown or not. That isn't the point.

I watched Silva vs Arona 2 yesterday in Pride, and many people are arguing that Pride's criteria was simply designed to not care if some dude laid on top of another guy to burn out the clock. Coincidently, I watched Arona vs Fedor a couple months before that, and same thing, in a totally different org.

This is common in MMA in Asia in general (where the sport is from, so you cant' just say its only done for "entertainment", thats how the rules were originally), where there was no real reason to give wrestlers a scoring advantage like there was in the UFC.

 

[StonedLemur]

Who says that the person at the bottom loses? That wasn't always the case in MMA in the 80s and 90s.

The criteria was changed by people who didn't get grappling ironically enough, and now it's being exploited to squeek out decisions.

Who said that I said that sir?

What I said is the guy on the bottom needs more skills to get out, or possibly better TDD.

Also...80s?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Who said that I said that sir?

What I said is the guy on the bottom needs more skills to get out, or possibly better TDD.

Also...80s?

Ok, but that isn't relevant to the point of the thread. It's about if whether the rules favor wrestlers or not, not what skill set is needed to do well in the rules.

Yes, MMA started in the 80s. It predates UFC.

 

[StonedLemur]

Ok, but that isn't relevant to the point of the thread. It's about if whether the rules favor wrestlers or not, not what skill set is needed to do well in the rules.

Yes, MMA started in the 80s.

You weren't watching it in the 80s however.
And no it doesn't favor wrestlers, if it did they'd be allowed to tee with knees to the head from side control.

Real problem is these cats today don't want to do the hard work it takes to be good at TDD or fighting off your back...or escaping.

Everyone likes to look cool but like the work ethic to actually be cool, and Sean O'Malley is the perfect example of that.

When Crocop realized he'd have to get better at TDD he went and trained with Werdum... that's the difference.
Can't blame the rules.

I hate LNP more than anyone, but I also hate a guy that gets held down and complains about it rather than trying to do something about it.

 

[Safton]

Been addressed many times. Aljo is not all wrestlers. And introducing grounded knees would help wrestlers just as much as hurt them.

 

[Vergilius]

They don’t. The rules favour cardio. But they always have.

We can debate about how control time is scored or not scored, but keep in mind:

The fight has a mandatory stand up to start each round. Not only that, but if the wrestler still has his opponent pinned or grounded at the end of the round, he doesn't get to keep that position and that momentum, going into the next round.

If the striker has his opponent rocked and covering up at the end of the round, he doesn't get to keep that position either.

 

[usernamee]

Well, "octagon control" is really bottom of the totem pole for scoring, it's if all else is equal essentially. I'm not really sure what you're trying to advance here. Surely you don't think Sean did enough to win that fight? I mean, sure, Sean landed a few useful strikes, but Merab certainly dominated the action.

Call it "control," or whatever you will, but asserting your will, your pace, your positioning, etc. on the opponent does have to count for something. Sean got handled that fight, even if he landed a few good shots.

I'm not a fan of someone getting someone down, inside their guard, head down and holding them in place. That doesn't really seem to be what happened.

Octagon control is the most important scoring criteria because I like to hear Goldie say

AND
OCTA
GON
CONTROL

 

[Dr Brian Pepper]

A wrestler does not even have to take you down to win a round, just be trying for 5 mins and you get the round

the rules def favor wrestlers

 

[SuperAlly]

Imagine an NFL football game that ends with a score of 0-0 and they award the victory to the team that had the higher time of possession.

It's dumb. Neither team scored, it's a draw.

Same thing in MMA. If neither guy gets damaged then it should be a draw.

The poodle lovers coping hard

Wonder how long this will go on

 

[SuperAlly]

What you just described is exactly why MMA judging is so horrendous.

The solution is to score zero points for control. That way you land 1 takedown, maybe you get some points for the takedown, but that's it. And if you manage to hold them down all round, you win the round. BUT if they then take a risk, stand up, and land a few punches, they win the round.

I wish O'Malley had been able to press the attack. If he'd knocked Merab down in the 5th round and avoided getting taken down, having Merab run away all round, I think the 2 judges that scored round 3 for O'Malley would have given him a 10-8 in the 5th. Would have been hilarious as hell to see Merab get a majority draw.

Pathetic

Poodle hair lost

Deal with it

 

[SuperAlly]

One other thing, you're allowed to start grounded in MMA. Some fighters like Jon Jones start crawling.

So, it's not even true that fights start standing. It's optional.

In all the dumb posts seen Sean lost in embarrassing fashion, this may be the dumbest

 

[SuperAlly]

you guys like to play retard

which part of "laying on top of someone without doing nothing should not score points" dont you guys understant?

if you get somebody down but cant do nothing with it in 30 seconds, you should be stand up

Everyone else is a retard because they don't "understant"?

Man you Sean cock gobblers are embarrassing yourselves

 

[SuperAlly]

Then maybe these guys are going to have to learn TDD and getting up.

Sean laid there like a Thai hooker and didn't even try to do anything.
That's Merabs fault sir?

The guy who is lying on his back, accepting position, doing nothing, no real sub attempts, jus maintaining positiong is just as much "gaming the system"

The other guy has you in a dominant position. There has to be some expectation that you will try and get up, sub, strike and if that leads you to giving up your back or a worse position than guard then tough shit. Onus is on you to get out of the negative position not just accept it

 

[Oldman1]

They don’t. The rules favour cardio. But they always have.

We can debate about how control time is scored or not scored, but keep in mind:

The fight has a mandatory stand up to start each round. Not only that, but if the wrestler still has his opponent pinned or grounded at the end of the round, he doesn't get to keep that position and that momentum, going into the next round.

The bottom line is MMA fighters need to learn how to deal with a wrestling/grappling threat, just like the successful wrestlers learned how to deal with the striking and the submission grappling. It goes both ways.

Thanks for parroting Joe Rogan

 

[Human Bass]

Rules dont allow someone in turtle position (favored by wrestler) to be kicked and kneed in the head. While not allowing someone playing guard to upkick the person on top if he is on his knees

 

[Doctor Grudge]

In all the dumb posts seen Sean lost in embarrassing fashion, this may be the dumbest

Has nothing to do with Sean O'Malley.

And I think it's pretty clear you either didn't read my post properly or read it out of context.

 

[StonedLemur]

The guy who is lying on his back, accepting position, doing nothing, no real sub attempts, jus maintaining positiong is just as much "gaming the system"

The other guy has you in a dominant position. There has to be some expectation that you will try and get up, sub, strike and if that leads you to giving up your back or a worse position than guard then tough shit. Onus is on you to get out of the negative position not just accept it

Exactly....ding ding ding, someone gets it lol.

 

[shunyata]

If the MMA ruleset favored wrestling, there would be no stand ups, period. Tough shit if someone can hold you down... learn to get back up.

We'd restart the new round in the position the last round ended if we wanted to favor grappling.

 

[shunyata]

The guy who is lying on his back, accepting position, doing nothing, no real sub attempts, jus maintaining positiong is just as much "gaming the system"

The other guy has you in a dominant position. There has to be some expectation that you will try and get up, sub, strike and if that leads you to giving up your back or a worse position than guard then tough shit. Onus is on you to get out of the negative position not just accept it

I might be senile but wasn't this the first use of the phrase "lay and pray"?

The guy who lays on his back in guard, stalling, and prays for the referee to stand them up when the top player doesn't advance position.

Later on, maybe around the Fitch era, people started blaming the guy on top.

 

[Trabaho]

rules do favor wrestlers. downed opponents are protected from knees and kicks. just look at how aljo fights. failed or stuffed TD and you just sit down so you can't get kneed.

for a wrestler if would only be an advantage if you are in half gaurd and throwing knees at the guy under you.

alexa could have kicked val in the face from guard.

Valentian could of headbutted her face in. Wrestlers could knock everyone out with punches to the back of the head. Wrestlers could knee and soccer kick opponents under them. Alexa got dominated by Valentina who is the better fighter even borderline past her prime.