Five Eyes dossier leaked. Damming indictement of China.

[KOFalconPunch]

LOL good luck with that

China is a scary place in 2020 and even more scarier is how much political influence they enforce all across the globe. I think we can all agree we wouldn’t want to live in China’s mainland for starter’s.

New Delhi: The Chinese government has told Zimbabwe President Emmerson Mnangagwa to either “resign or retire” from office or face “political action” from Beijing, according to a report in Spotlight Zimbabwe, an online media publication.

The report said Beijing has also asked Mnangagwa to hand over power to China-leaning Vice-President General Constantino Chiwenga (Retd), who has been in China since July for medical treatment.

Chinese debt has become “the methamphetamines of infrastructure finance: highly addictive, readily available, and with long-term negative effects that far outweigh any temporary high,” according to a recent article by Grant T. Harris, who was President Barack Obama’s White House director for Africa from 2011 to 2015.

 

[MicroBrew]

This is only being carried by right-wing shit-rags at the moment. (Fox News, Daily Mail)

I'm not passing any comment on the undeniable shittiness of the CCP but I'm old enough to remember Saddams WMDs.

Are there any credible sources carrying this.

Some of the individual claims mentioned in the O.P. have been well known and reported on by non rightwing media sources.

1 - China silenced and 'disappeared' doctors who raised the alarm

From Vice anf The Guardian, on the silencing of Li Wenliang
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...-of-silenced-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...virus-doctors-whistleblowers-history-silenced

Chinese authorities try to silence Wuhan doctor Ai Feng
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities

--------
2 - China denied human-to-human transmission until Jan 20th despite knowing about it since early December

Jan 20th is when China officially acknowledged human to human transmission
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ronavirus-but-waited-6-days-to-tell-the-world

-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...st-weeks-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak-in-wuhan
By atleast late December, Wuhan authorities knew of a new contagious disease
Human-to-human transmission

By the end of December, before Lan recovered after more than 20 days in hospital, word had gotten out in Wuhan about a mystery illness. Internet users circulated screenshots of a WeChat conversation on 30 December in which a doctor at Wuhan Red Cross hospital, Liu Wen, warned colleagues of confirmed cases of a contagious coronavirus at another hospital. “Wash your hands! Face masks! Gloves!” the medic wrote.


That same day an ophthalmologist at Wuhan central hospital named Li Wenliang told a WeChat group of former medical school classmates that seven people at his hospital had contracted what he believed to be Sars, the outbreak that killed more than 600 people in mainland China and Hong Kong in 2002-03.

-

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/27/21082354/coronavirus-outbreak-wuhan-china-early-on-lancet
A new study, published on January 24 in The Lancet, helps explain why. The authors — Chinese researchers, and doctors working in Wuhan — paint a very different portrait of the first days of the outbreak. They suggest the virus, and its spread among humans, took off weeks earlier than Chinese officials said.

The researchers reviewed the clinical charts, nursing records, lab findings, and chest X-rays of the first 41 patients who had confirmed 2019-nCoV infections. Among other things, they reported that the first case of 2019-nCoV wasn’t even linked to the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market at the center of the outbreak.

The above Vox links states there was direct evidence of human-to-human transmission by Jan 2nd.

-

The Hill reporting that Chinese authorities knew in December there was human-to-human transmission
https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...hinas-xi-jinping-know-and-when-did-he-know-it

 

[Crom Cruach]

Some of the individual claims mentioned in the O.P. have been well known and reported on by non rightwing media sources.

1 - China silenced and 'disappeared' doctors who raised the alarm

From Vice anf The Guardian, on the silencing of Li Wenliang
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...-of-silenced-whistleblower-doctor-li-wenliang
https://www.theguardian.com/educati...virus-doctors-whistleblowers-history-silenced

Chinese authorities try to silence Wuhan doctor Ai Feng
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-doctor-ai-fen-speaks-out-against-authorities

--------
2 - China denied human-to-human transmission until Jan 20th despite knowing about it since early December

Jan 20th is when China officially acknowledged human to human transmission
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...ronavirus-but-waited-6-days-to-tell-the-world

-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...st-weeks-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak-in-wuhan
By atleast late December, Wuhan authorities knew of a new contagious disease
Human-to-human transmission

By the end of December, before Lan recovered after more than 20 days in hospital, word had gotten out in Wuhan about a mystery illness. Internet users circulated screenshots of a WeChat conversation on 30 December in which a doctor at Wuhan Red Cross hospital, Liu Wen, warned colleagues of confirmed cases of a contagious coronavirus at another hospital. “Wash your hands! Face masks! Gloves!” the medic wrote.


That same day an ophthalmologist at Wuhan central hospital named Li Wenliang told a WeChat group of former medical school classmates that seven people at his hospital had contracted what he believed to be Sars, the outbreak that killed more than 600 people in mainland China and Hong Kong in 2002-03.

-

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/27/21082354/coronavirus-outbreak-wuhan-china-early-on-lancet
A new study, published on January 24 in The Lancet, helps explain why. The authors — Chinese researchers, and doctors working in Wuhan — paint a very different portrait of the first days of the outbreak. They suggest the virus, and its spread among humans, took off weeks earlier than Chinese officials said.

The researchers reviewed the clinical charts, nursing records, lab findings, and chest X-rays of the first 41 patients who had confirmed 2019-nCoV infections. Among other things, they reported that the first case of 2019-nCoV wasn’t even linked to the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market at the center of the outbreak.

The above Vox links states there was direct evidence of human-to-human transmission by Jan 2nd.

-

The Hill reporting that Chinese authorities knew in December there was human-to-human transmission
https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...hinas-xi-jinping-know-and-when-did-he-know-it

Dude, I totally agree that the position of China in the worlds economy is problematic now and am willing to have a discussion on that.
But that is going to mean some Capitalists need to have a long hard look at themselves.

But, there are some pretty egregious claims in your OP which are not backed up in this post (disappearing scientists, manufacturing the virus).
I'm not cool with that.

For example, China's actions can be explained by them taking the same "pro-economy" stance as other countries that handled it poorly (e.g. USA, UK, Netherlands, Sweden) . I can see that.

Did their totalitarian state try to cover up( and still stick to cover ups of) how badly they handled it?
I can get on board with that.

Did they deliberately try to crash the world economy, manufacture the virus?
Well, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And, so far, I've not seen any.

 

[Gunny]

What was the context of the research? My understanding is that scientists try to create stronger versions of viruses in order to develop methods to counter them

That’s basically what the video says - but that it was foolish and irresponsible to do so and that these scientists put very meager potential benefits ahead of astronomical potential consequences.

 

[Low Test With da Best]

If China comes up on top even foe a bit its bad news for the whole world


They are substandard when it comes to accountability


I mean they have ghost Cities !!! I mean who does that?



I remember Back in 2012 I rejected a job offer because I found out the Filipino Chinese owner of the business can barely speak Filipino.

Those typea of employers think 12 hr shifts are the norm.


He thinks he is a Juan but he is more like Huang,!!

I love this post and I love you dude, have a good satdee, or whatever day it is in the PPs!

 

[Low Test With da Best]

Pun intended?

I don't get the pun, therefore I get the:

 

[MicroBrew]

Dude, I totally agree that the position of China in the worlds economy is problematic now and am willing to have a discussion on that.
But that is going to mean some Capitalists need to have a long hard look at themselves.

But, there are some pretty egregious claims in your OP which are not backed up in this post (disappearing scientists, manufacturing the virus).
I'm not cool with that.

For example, China's actions can be explained by them taking the same "pro-economy" stance as other countries that handled it poorly (e.g. USA, UK, Netherlands, Sweden) . I can see that.

Did their totalitarian state try to cover up( and still stick to cover ups of) how badly they handled it?
I can get on board with that.

Did they deliberately try to crash the world economy, manufacture the virus?
Well, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And, so far, I've not seen any.

I didn't address every single point because then the post gets way too big and no one pays attention.

I did mention that some of the "individual" claims have been known and reported on. I am not claiming every single claim mentioned in the O.P. has been reported on.

They did silence whistleblowers, that is pretty irrefutable. The "disappering" might be alluding to Dr Ai Fen, who went missing shortly after alerting other doctors. She did re-emerge later.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news...ctor-disappears-warned-about-covid-19-threat/

Re. The claim about manufacturing the virus : The O.P. does not say Sars-Cov-2 was manufactured, it only says that researchers from the WIV synthezised a bat derived coronavirus that could not be cured.

Re. crashing economy of other nations
That was my own take, which is why it is not italicised. I only italicize verbatum quotes. We do know for a fact that China not only hid human-to-human transmission for several days or weeks but they castigated other nations for trying to enact strict measures for visitors from China. They allowed people to leave China even while they enacted strict travel restrictions at home.

--

I forgot to add this quote in the last post. it is from WaPo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...e-legally-liable-pandemic-damage-it-has-done/

We now know that the first case of covid-19 appeared in China’s Hubei province on Nov. 17. By mid-December, Chinese officials knew that the virus was capable of human-to-human transmission because doctors and nurses were getting sick. But instead of alerting the world, they tried to cover it up and punished doctors who tried to sound the alarm

 

[blaseblah]

That’s basically what the video says - but that it was foolish and irresponsible to do so and that these scientists put very meager potential benefits ahead of astronomical potential consequences.

I read about this years ago. American scientists and other countries are doing this as well.

Found one of the articles I remember reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/when-viruses-escape-the-lab/371202/

 

[Low Test With da Best]

This is a long watch but PP has been a pretty level headed source with a better track record on this virus than anyone in the media.



TLDR: Chinese scientist in Wuhan (with assistance from some American scientists including Fauci) were absolutely working on modifying bat coronaviruses to make them more pathogenic. Those same scientists are now being relied upon as the source for claims the virus is not man made. Their explanations are flimsy and all-too-conventient.

Edit: I initially linked the wrong video. Corrected above

Whoa, ok, that is interesting had not heard about it before

 

[MicroBrew]

@Crom Cruach

From the O.P.

# 3 China censored online comments that mentioned " Wuhan Seafood market " , " Wuhan unknown pneumonia"
"SARS variation"

From The Guardian
Chinese social media censors blocked neutral information about the coronavirus outbreak when they targeted references to the outbreak on WeChat and other platforms, a report has found.

Hundreds of keywords and keyword combinations, including “Wuhan seafood market” and “Sars variation” were censored in late December, as doctors sought to warn about the new virus.

The report, by the Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto’s Munk school of global affairs and public policy, found that between January and February, “a wide breadth of content” was censored on WeChat and YY, a Chinese live-streaming platform, including criticisms of the Chinese government.

Speculative and factual information, and neutral references to the government’s handling of the outbreak, were also blocked.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ng-officially-sanctioned-facts-on-coronavirus

 

[MicroBrew]

Only 4 min video

 

[Fluffernutter]

I don't get the pun, therefore I get the:

I mentioned that WWIII will be fought via computers and hacking and whatnot.

The reply was that WWIII will be fought via viruses.

I replied that I thought that was a decent pun.

 

[Low Test With da Best]

Not created as a weapon. But, created as a way to identify and cure future coronaviruses.

In the US our DOE labs are predominantly staffed by grad students/post docs who craft their research path either at the blessing of their PI (usually a profesor at a nearby university) or, bereft of ideas, might be set on a path by their PI.

Now that's true for chem/physics/material sciences/bio/mineral sciences, but I don't know if it's true for the pharmacological sciences/virologists/etc for the US or for China.

However if it is, isn't it possible a prof had a doctoral candidate doing this research under these pretenses, but the upon the student's success the prof stole the research and released it somehow, possibly intentionally, possibly at the request of the CCP?

However, with the existence of the virus lab so near Wuhan, wouldn't ya think that a prof at one of these five nearby universities would know SOMETHING about WTF happened here?



Is there no international organization who is bestowed with the big sack to swing into Wuhan and find out WHAT THE FUCK CAUSED THE SHUT DOWN OF THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD!?

 

[MicroBrew]

The left leaning Independent is now reporting on the news broken by the Australian Daily Telegraph

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...destroyed-a9495856.html?utm_source=reddit.com

China deliberately destroyed evidence about start of coronavirus, report says

Leaked document reportedly states that human-to-human transmission was not confirmed by Beijing until 20 January despite evidence of it in December

 

[MicroBrew]

In the US our DOE labs are predominantly staffed by grad students/post docs who craft their research path either at the blessing of their PI (usually a profesor at a nearby university) or, bereft of ideas, might be set on a path by their PI.

Now that's true for chem/physics/material sciences/bio/mineral sciences.

I don't know if it's true for the pharmacological sciences/virologists/etc for the US or for China.

However, with the existence of the virus lab so near Wuhan, wouldn't ya think that a prof at one of these five nearby universities would know SOMETHING about WTF happened here?

View attachment 765077

Is there no international organization who is bestowed with the big sack to swing into Wuhan and find out WHAT THE FUCK CAUSE THE SHUT DOWN OF THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD!?

China won't allow an independent global investigation. They got pissed when Australia called for an investigation, calling Australia a piece of gum that is stuck to China's shoe that needs to be rubbed off on a stone. They also threatened Australia with economic retaliation if it goes through with calls for an investigation.

You got to wonder why the Chinese are soo opposed to an investigation.....

 

[KOFalconPunch]

“The reason China wants him (Mnangagwa) out is because he has made them angry by reneging on a number of deals he made with Beijing in 2015,” the Spotlight Zimbabwereport quotes a former intelligence minister of the country as saying.

Some of the deals Mnangagwa has reneged on include a major contract, promised to China Railway, “to refurbish and reconstruct a new national railway network for Zimbabwe worth billions”. The contract has now reportedly been given to a Western firm.

“Mnangagwa also undertook to give China exclusive diamonds and platinum claims in the country, but they have lost to Russia on that front,” said the former intelligence minister.

https://theprint.in/world/resign-or...atens-zimbabwe-president-looking-west/321100/

Numerous analysts and experts, including the former secretary of state Rex W. Tillerson and Christine Lagarde, the managing director of the monetary fund, have warned nations to be cautious about taking on too much Chinese debt.

Angola, the Republic of Congo and Zambia were some of the nations that Moody’s listed this month among the most indebted to Chinese creditors. A report from the financial research company said interest payments in Ghana, Angola, Zambia and Nigeria already absorbed more than 20 percent of government revenue.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/23/...-brakes-on-chinese-debt-but-not-for-long.html

African nations might be wising up.

 

[Bald1]

Re. crashing economy of other nations
That was my own take, which is why it is not italicised. I only italicize verbatum quotes. We do know for a fact that China not only hid human-to-human transmission for several days or weeks but they castigated other nations for trying to enact strict measures for visitors from China. They allowed people to leave China even while they enacted strict travel restrictions at home.

-

I don't doubt for one minute that they allowed global spread in order to ensure other economics suffered as well, thus keeping themselves competitive in a compromised market. The Chinese government announced lockdown ahead of the Chinese New Year and many of their citizens scattered throughout the world.

They're tiptoeing the fine line of plausible deniability and some people are buying it. I'm not sure if those people are useful idiots or what, but believing dictatorships is as intellectually lazy as it gets.

 

[MicroBrew]

From The Times (of London) sourcing a Beijing based Chinese paper
https://archive.vn/2020.03.30-09564...estroyed-proof-of-virus-in-december-rz055qjnj

Chinese scientists destroyed proof of virus in December

Chinese laboratories identified a mystery virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year, but they were ordered to stop tests, destroy samples and suppress the news, a Chinese media outlet has revealed.

A regional health official in Wuhan, centre of the outbreak, demanded the destruction of the lab samples that established the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January 1. China did not acknowledge there was human-to-human transmission until more than three weeks later.

The detailed revelations by Caixin Global, a respected independent publication, provide the clearest evidence yet of the scale of the cover-up in the crucial early weeks when the opportunity was lost to control the outbreak.

Censors have been rapidly deleting the report from the Chinese internet.
Caixin reported that several genomics companies sequenced the coronavirus by December 27 from samples from patients who had fallen sick in Wuhan.

 

[MicroBrew]

I don't doubt for one minute that they allowed global spread in order to ensure other economics suffered as well, thus keeping themselves competitive in a compromised market. The Chinese government announced lockdown ahead of the Chinese New Year and many of their citizens scattered throughout the world.

They're tiptoeing the fine line of plausible deniability and some people are buying it. I'm not sure if those people are useful idiots or what, but believing dictatorships is as intellectually lazy as it gets.

Yeah one has to ask themselves:

Why did they pressure other countries NOT to enact measures against visitors from China, even after they knew of human-to-human tranmission?

Why did they allow people to fly out of China even while they enacted strict travel measures within China?

Why did they keep human-to-human transmission a secret for weeks?

 

[ocfightfan]

Yeah one has to ask themselves:

Why did they pressure other countries NOT to enact measures against visitors from China, even after they knew of human-to-human tranmission?

Why did they allow people to fly out of China even while they enacted strict travel measures within China?

Why did they keep human-to-human transmission a secret for weeks?

"In the midst of crisis is also opportunity." - Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

They are using the virus to create opportunities to expand their influence. They hid the facts about the virus and pushed everyone else to not limit its spread outside China to create chaos and weaken everyone else. Then they sent out their minions around the world to buy up all the PPE they could and send it back to China so they could sell it back for a profit or donated it to try and manufacture goodwill.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...angers__didnt_tell_the_rest_of_the_world.html