Five Criteria for GOATness: Record, Dominance, Skill, Cheating, Competence in Judging

Captain_Dammitt said:
When Fedor was running thru PRIDE they had the best fighters in the world. Especially the HWs.

I get what you're saying about legacy but Anderson's later fights don't undo what he did in his prime. Getting KO'd by Hall doesn't un-kick Vitor in the face. Losing so many in a row doesn't un-defend the title 10 times.
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Only in sherdog you see people discrediting a fighter for what he did in his 40s.

Sugae Ray Robinson is widely considered GOAT by boxing pundits and fellow fighters, despite many losses he suffered very late in his career.

Its like writing off Michael Jordan for what he did in Washington Wizards. Only in sherdog
 
Yellowcrab said:
He never beat Werdum and Overeem, why do you even mention these names ? Also, it's about being competitive outside of the japanese circus show ruled by yakuzas, which means with some weak drug testing, not even USADA + without fixed fights.

It's about Fedor, the guy who got destroyed by a completely washed out MW, you know ? Not a single decent HW would suffer such a humiliating loss in the UFC today, not a single one. Only Fedor managed such a feat because he's a fraud in modern MMA.

Arlovski won the interim championship against Sylvia, so nothing to add... and when i speak about modern MMA, it's not 20 years ago where the level was weak in the UFC too.

Fedor never beat anyone outside of Japan : his best win is Arlovski who is a joke in the UFC, especially post USADA. It's his best win outside of Japan and in his entire resume with Hunt (but beat in the japanese circus show not in the USA). If you count the washed out Mir and Quinton, then you have to count his humiliating losses against Mitrione and Bader then.

Now it's time to ignore you, let you living in the past and eating whole packs of salt about Jon Jones each day {<jordan}
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Either you're too dumb to understand why I brought up those names or you are just playing dumb because I backed you into a corner of your own stupidity and slapped the shit out of you?

I brought up those names because they're from Fedors generation, which according to you was only good when MMA was "brand new" yet somehow these names were relevant, top 10 HWs in the UFC very recently. But according to you Fedor, who was the best of that generation some how "sucks" based on "today's MMA" Amazing stuff.

The best thing about rats like you is that if you let them talk long enough they will bury themselves in their own trash.

Now it's time for you to "ignore" me because I'm your dad and you got exposed. Now you can go back to your safety zone of shertard shit posting and UFC fanboying from your basement. Smelly rat loser.
 
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You have to look at a variety of factors for sure. And, any one factor is not necessarily make or break. For example, I think record is a factor but that alone does not made someone an all-time great. You have to look at other things as well such as longevity, quality of opponents, competing in multiple weight classes, not just specifically record, but record in championship fights. You have to look at all these things and make a comprehensive evaluation. No one factor can be overriding. It's a combination and there's no set formula.
 
Captain_Dammitt said:
When Fedor was running thru PRIDE they had the best fighters in the world. Especially the HWs.

I get what you're saying about legacy but Anderson's later fights don't undo what he did in his prime. Getting KO'd by Hall doesn't un-kick Vitor in the face. Losing so many in a row doesn't un-defend the title 10 times.
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No. But for me it takes Goat out of consideration.

IMO there are only two: Khabib and Jon Jones. They were so much better than everyone else in their weight class.
 
Fedors not even a top 10 HW of all time. He had speed and power and that's it, not much skill or technique
 
The Don said:
Also, you don't think Usman, Askren, or Colby can perform just as well against Fitch?
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I think besides the lack of finishes that is the main negative for GSP for me, he was fighting in a division which whilst it was strongly hyped as it was the only division the UFC could honestly(when that mattered still) argue was the centre of the sport during the Pride years I think for the same reasons was actually the least evolved in the sport(at least from LW and up). The lack of investment in 170lbs in Japan I think meant it stayed as a wrestler focused divison for much longer. Matt Hughes being a dominant champ by the mid 00's with his skill set was out of wack with any other division.
 
moreorless87 said:
I think besides the lack of finishes that is the main negative for GSP for me, he was fighting in a division which whilst it was strongly hyped as it was the only division the UFC could honestly(when that mattered still) argue was the centre of the sport during the Pride years I think for the same reasons was actually the least evolved in the sport(at least from LW and up). The lack of investment in 170lbs in Japan I think meant it stayed as a wrestler focused divison for much longer. Matt Hughes being a dominant champ by the mid 00's with his skill set was out of wack with any other division.
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Agreed.
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
Right so if longevity matters for comparison, khabib will never be on any goat list because you can't compare him with any goats because he retired too early. Dominant fighter too short of a career.

I use this example a lot but if weidman retired undefeated after his 3rd title defense is he in the discussion too? Two finishes over the goat at the time, and a KO of Belfort then retires.
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Well, it depends on how long the list goes. If it top 3-5, I would say probably not. If it top 10, then maybe. He is certainly not the GOAT, going by the criteria I postulated, since he is overwhelmingly outshined in record by many.

I like your Weidman example, however. But of course, not everything is title defenses. Record and what you did when you did without the title counts. We are talking 13-0 (Weidman) vs. 29-0 (Khabib), almost twice as many fights. Even if each had 3 title defenses. We would have to factor in, also, number of ranked wins, etc.

I think a shortcoming is only looking at titles and title defenses. We have to look at a record holistically. Including non-ranked wins.
 
Goutfather said:
this is absolute nonsense. when jones arrived, lhw was stacked with legends in their primes, and jones ran through everyone with ease. shogun, rampage, machida, evans, trt vitor—all former champions who were “in the mix” until jones came along. lw, by contrast, was practically a wasteland when khabib entered the title picture. still is, frankly. the idea that “lw is the deepest division” is just a dead meme left over from the ufc / wec merger.
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LOL PLS

All of those clowns sucked.

JBJ was too big of a wuss to fight at HW
 
blaccbeard said:
Jones
GSP/Anderson
Stipe

Fin.
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cope
lYnijCg.gif
 
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