Opinion Finding Common Ground

[zebby23]

I forgot to ad a tidbit regarding Gun Control:

We have to register to exercise our right to vote. So, I'm cool with registering our right to bare arms.

Link my weapon to me in the same way my 1999 Honda Civic is linked to me.

No, anything besides more guns and give guns to babies is too much.

Do you even Amendment bro?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Gun control:
The knee-jerk reaction here might be to think this issue is too partisan, but from my personal experience and some polling data I've seen, most Americans are pretty much in the same place. Universal background checks when buying from licensed dealers (most states already do this), as well as some kind of reporting system or bill of sale for private transactions or gifts. If I sell my car the state finds out because the new owner has to register the title, I think it's fair if you sell your gun privately that there should be some kind of paper trail to know the purchase history of said gun.

Most states do not have universal checks. There is a nics check, it is done by all legally operating ffl's selling guns.

Now on the paper trail on selling privately. Who has the paper trail?

 

[AngryPorto]

Most states do not have universal checks. There is a nics check, it is done by all legally operating ffl's selling guns.

Now on the paper trail on selling privately. Who has the paper trail?

In this scenario you'd have to report a sale to the state, or register with your local municipality that you have X gun with serial #.
I'm open to options here, but as someone already said, you have to register to vote, I think it's fair that you have to register your firearm to some extent.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

In this scenario you'd have to report a sale to the state, or register with your local municipality that you have X gun with serial #.
I'm open to options here, but as someone already said, you have to register to vote, I think it's fair that you have to register your firearm to some extent.

No thanks. Registration leads to confiscation and or neutering.

Proof of that is multiple states and other countries.

 

[AngryPorto]

No thanks. Registration leads to confiscation and or neutering.

Proof of that is multiple states and other countries.

Can you provide source within the US? I googled and can't find a non-partisan source. And I've never heard of gun confiscation without probable cause (danger to self or others).

I guess my question then becomes "do you support any form of gun control?" And how would you deal with the various gun violence we've seen in the civilian sector the past several decades?

 

[AngryPorto]

History has proven way too many times, by multiple countries, the danger of mass registration leading to unjust confiscation by government. Conservatives understand this point better. That's a no for me too.

I would support background checks and mental health checks pre-sale being mandatory, but that's about it. Too delicate a situation to go down the wrong path. As for gun violence in the last decades? That's a community issue not a gun issue, but no one wants to address the real conversation.

I understand your perspective, but given the amount of guns in this country per person I don't see the government ever seriously trying to confiscate. There would be an absolute civil war and even if the government came out on top they'd have nothing left to rule over. I'm a flaming libby but even I have several guns; some of my conservative family and friends have arsenals. Not to mention the right to bear arms is a hardwired right in this country; I genuinely don't see mass confiscation ever happening.

I don't dismiss the other issues surrounding the gun violence. Mental health and prescription drugs are also a contributing factor, and it's fair to say that we need to talk about all of them (prescription drugs, mental health, and guns) in context to really address the issue.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Can you provide source within the US? I googled and can't find a non-partisan source. And I've never heard of gun confiscation without probable cause (danger to self or others).

I guess my question then becomes "do you support any form of gun control?" And how would you deal with the various gun violence we've seen in the civilian sector the past several decades?

For what part? Confiscation or neutering.

Best neutering example is California but includes many other states.

Katrina. Red flag laws are confiscation without due process. There are more that I'm forgetting. Lists have also been abused. CCW holders private info being posted in newspapers for example. Lists with peoples belongings and info on them are prime for abuse.

Gun and violent crime has been decreasing for decades. But better opportunities and reform on education, drug, law, prison, mental health, etc.

If the gun control was written by numerous pro 2nd lawyers, advocates, etc, it included many pro gun things in it and any abuses of it or trying to inact further control or bans is in direct violation of the 2nd. Sure. But with everything being pushed now like semi auto bans, magazine bans, universal/registration, etc.

 

[woodguyatl]

History has proven way too many times, by multiple countries, the danger of mass registration leading to unjust confiscation by government. Conservatives understand this point better. That's a no for me too.

I would support background checks and mental health checks pre-sale being mandatory, but that's about it. Too delicate a situation to go down the wrong path. As for gun violence in the last decades? That's a community issue not a gun issue, but no one wants to address the real conversation.

History has also proven that the requirement to register to vote has been used as a way to prevent people from voting. It is another slipper slope.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Biggie>Pac
Pink Floyd>The Beatles
THC>Alcohol

Were you dropped on your melon when you were a kid or something

how the fuck do you get 1 out of 3 on some of the easiest choices in the world

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I understand your perspective, but given the amount of guns in this country per person I don't see the government ever seriously trying to confiscate. There would be an absolute civil war and even if the government came out on top they'd have nothing left to rule over. I'm a flaming libby but even I have several guns; some of my conservative family and friends have arsenals. Not to mention the right to bear arms is a hardwired right in this country; I genuinely don't see mass confiscation ever happening.

I don't dismiss the other issues surrounding the gun violence. Mental health and prescription drugs are also a contributing factor, and it's fair to say that we need to talk about all of them (prescription drugs, mental health, and guns) in context to really address the issue.

All but the idiots on the anti gun agenda side know it's the tortoise strategy that will win. Neuter guns, slowly ban certain actions, certain mags sizes. Just keep slowly chipping away until the 2nd and the weapons themselves are basically bolt actions.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I could have sworn that I seen this same thread 10yrs ago

 

[woodguyatl]

Not sure what you're getting at here. How can registering to vote prevent me from voting? Anyone can register, and then vote. There's nothing to "take away" like you can a registered gun in regards to voting, it's verifying the accuracy of the voting records. Unless you're saying people are too stupid to register to vote so they miss out I don't see the connection.

Making it difficult or, in the past, impossible to register can prevent voting in the same way that making it difficult to register to own a firearm can make acquiring one a burden. In both cases registering is an obstacle that must be overcome to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right. Since you quoted historical acts in other countries to show that registration leads enables confiscation I simply pointed out that impossible registration requirements were used extensively in this country to prevent blacks from voting.

Also, an aside with regard to nothing to take away. The right to vote is regularly taken away from people who commit crimes even though the crime has nothing to do with voting. I just can't figure out why weed possession should prevent someone from voting.

 

[AngryPorto]

All but the idiots on the anti gun agenda side know it's the tortoise strategy that will win. Neuter guns, slowly ban certain actions, certain mags sizes. Just keep slowly chipping away until the 2nd and the weapons themselves are basically bolt actions.

I mean the military is already way better equipped than the civilian populace, so I don't see how this argument holds much water.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I mean the military is already way better equipped than the civilian populace, so I don't see how this argument holds much water.

There are gun owners in basically every county in the country. Our military's biggest advantage are weapons that would level small portions - entire neighborhoods. So unless they plan on trying to carpet bomb cites, suburbs, etc the guerilla warfare in every county would be effective. 3% of the population would outnumber our military nearly 10 - 1 (that is providing 0 military members turn on the government). Also good luck controlling and occupying 3.8 million sq miles.

 

[forum poster]

Hello WR. I thought it would be interesting to see what issues we might actually find common ground on. Issues like abortion, the economy, taxation -- most of them I guess -- we're all pretty entrenched in, but I think there is some common ground for us commies and fascists to share. So here are mine, what do you think? And let me know yours.

Getting money out of politics:
What we have right now is essentially legalized bribery in the form of Super PACs, big money dinners, lobbying, etc, allowing billionaires (Koch Brothers, Soros) to have unfair advantage with politicians who are supposed to representing all of us, not just a few of us. Would you support an amendment making it illegal for politicians to accept campaign contributions? How about only allowed to accept a certain amount of money from small donors? Along with this would perhaps be the requirement to publicly fund campaigns and require businesses who run political adds to offer equal promotion of the opposing party.

Regulating social media platforms as public utilities:
I often hear my conservative friends complaining about how left-leaning social media platforms (Facebook, Twitter, YT, etc) more harshly censor and remove conservative viewpoints. If we regulate them as a public utility we can then apply the 1st amendment to them, thereby protecting all speech on these platforms as protected speech. Social media platforms are the new public square and should be treated as such.

Gun control:
The knee-jerk reaction here might be to think this issue is too partisan, but from my personal experience and some polling data I've seen, most Americans are pretty much in the same place. Universal background checks when buying from licensed dealers (most states already do this), as well as some kind of reporting system or bill of sale for private transactions or gifts. If I sell my car the state finds out because the new owner has to register the title, I think it's fair if you sell your gun privately that there should be some kind of paper trail to know the purchase history of said gun.

Marijuana & other recreational drugs in general:
The cat's out of the bag for marijuana, and it's time for our laws to reflect that federally. While I'm open to the idea of states having the right to legalize or not internally, marijuana should be de-criminalized federally and removed as a Schedule 1 so it can be properly researched without unnecessary red-tape. Other "natural" drugs like mushrooms should also be considered. If it grows out of the ground it's probably okay and up to the individual how to use. Also the "Green" Industry is the largest growing industry in the country. So there's that.

Bring the troops home:
We've been in Afghanistan for 18 years, Iraq for 16, and we're in shadow wars across the Middle East and Africa. It's time to bring the troops home. The Middle East has been a quagmire for thousands of years, it's time we stopped sending young Americans to die for the greed of the military industrial complex, especially given the pretenses for some of these wars (Iraq) turned out to be false (where dem WMD's at?).

Infrastructure:
Our infrastructure gets a rating of D+. We need an overhaul. The means are important (private or public) and are a separate debate, but we should be able to agree that the whole patch-and-pray philosophy we've been following will eventually catch up to us. Plus jobs. Jobs jobs jobs.


These are just a few off the top of my head. Thoughts? Additions?

I think what you're trying to say is that everyone should vote for Bernie sanders. I would agree.

 

[floivanus]

I will do universal background checks IF the Hughes amendment gets repealed.

But, no; you cannot magically track guns with their serial number, that’s a pipedream

 

[woodguyatl]

Ah yes, the racism argument. Somehow it always comes back around to good ol racism. The main difference being that those obstacles were overcome, rather than trying to create the obstacles in 2019 and beyond.

That varies by state though. Here in FL for example they just passed a law where everyone can vote regardless of criminal nature. The law made sense in the case that who wants an ex-con for two armed robberies voting for lower gun restrictions? Not for minor crimes though, which is why it passed. Either way, I wouldn't want to create the avenue where my gun rights become easily removed due to "circumstances" but it appears we are going to go closer and closer down that road.

I used race discrimination but the laws were used to disenfranchise poor whites as well. (And honestly the US has more experience with racism than the tyrannical govt 2a folks preach about) From a pure risk point of view do you think it would be easier for the govt to confiscate guns or make it hard for people to vote? I suspect the latter and therefore would argue against registration. I think it is more likely that the govt will try to do something they have successfully done before, discourage voting, than try something new, confiscating guns.

 

[PhitePhan]

History has proven way too many times, by multiple countries, the danger of mass registration leading to unjust confiscation by government. Conservatives understand this point better. That's a no for me too.

I would support background checks and mental health checks pre-sale being mandatory, but that's about it. Too delicate a situation to go down the wrong path. As for gun violence in the last decades? That's a community issue not a gun issue, but no one wants to address the real conversation.

I'd be leery of mental health checks, what's the benefit? Individuals with mental health problems are more likely to be victimized than to victimize others... only caveat would be overt threats to self or others, which I believe is already covered (at least in my state it is). The potential to dissuade seeking mental health care would be significant with certain populations.

 

[PhitePhan]

I understand your perspective, but given the amount of guns in this country per person I don't see the government ever seriously trying to confiscate. There would be an absolute civil war and even if the government came out on top they'd have nothing left to rule over. I'm a flaming libby but even I have several guns; some of my conservative family and friends have arsenals. Not to mention the right to bear arms is a hardwired right in this country; I genuinely don't see mass confiscation ever happening.

I don't dismiss the other issues surrounding the gun violence. Mental health and prescription drugs are also a contributing factor, and it's fair to say that we need to talk about all of them (prescription drugs, mental health, and guns) in context to really address the issue.

This is proabably a dumb question, but what is the benefit of gun registration?

 

[xcvbn]

Tax the wealthy