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Fighting Games Discussion

Not quite sure if I've posted my opinion on MK before, so I'm apologize if I have and I'm repeating myself.

Mortal Kombat was my favorite franchise from the early-to-mid 90s. I played a few of the games in the mid-2000s on consoles. When MK9 & MKX were released they were two of my favorites of PS3 & PS4 consoles.... but since then MK11 & MK1 completely bored me.

The guest characters were fun, but have been mostly gimmicks to make up for the weak new characters. Call me crazy but since the 90s arcade-era most of the new characters have completely sucked... but MKX's cast seemed like a return to form with awesome new characters which were in the same vein as the 90s arcade era.

The gameplay has had no new developments. Some aspects have been downgrades in some aspects and 'meh' upgrades in others.

My main was Kitana way back in the day of MK2 in the arcades, and she was nerfed in MK3U and the games afterward. In MK9 she was back to being badass was downgraded slightly in MKX, and she seems very middle-of-the-road character in MK11 & MK1.

And I can't think of a character that has received a gradual degradation of character than Goro. In MK1 he was a legit monster.

View attachment 1080469

And in MK11 he's...

View attachment 1080470

So WB is concerned why MK isn't as popular as it used to be. This is a few of the reasons why.

I agree with you on Goro. Just the thought of "Oh man.... I made it to Goro. Here comes the reaming..." should pop up nearly every time someone faces him. Because that's how he was when he was first introduced.

He was a legit monster.
 
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Not quite sure if I've posted my opinion on MK before, so I'm apologize if I have and I'm repeating myself.

Mortal Kombat was my favorite franchise from the early-to-mid 90s. I played a few of the games in the mid-2000s on consoles. When MK9 & MKX were released they were two of my favorites of PS3 & PS4 consoles.... but since then MK11 & MK1 completely bored me.

The guest characters were fun, but have been mostly gimmicks to make up for the weak new characters. Call me crazy but since the 90s arcade-era most of the new characters have completely sucked... but MKX's cast seemed like a return to form with awesome new characters which were in the same vein as the 90s arcade era.

The gameplay has had no new developments. Some aspects have been downgrades in some aspects and 'meh' upgrades in others.

My main was Kitana way back in the day of MK2 in the arcades, and she was nerfed in MK3U and the games afterward. In MK9 she was back to being badass was downgraded slightly in MKX, and she seems very middle-of-the-road character in MK11 & MK1.

And I can't think of a character that has received a gradual degradation of character than Goro. In MK1 he was a legit monster.

View attachment 1080469

And in MK11 he's...

View attachment 1080470

So WB is concerned why MK isn't as popular as it used to be. This is a few of the reasons why.
I'm the same.

I loved MK I and II (even though i thought the friendship and babality stuff was stupid)

MK III is kinda where they lost me. They had some new characters that were cool like Kabal and the cyber ninjas but the stages were fucking boring, the whole thing was drab and washed out looking compared to the first two games. Sub Zero was my fav character and they made him take his mask off and just look like some regular ass power ranger. Ultimate MK at least kinda piled it all together but I was just mostly done with it.

The combat was never that deep so the characters and atmosphere was what kept me going. The storyline got stupid, new characters suck. Never cared for any of the 3d ones. The games just kept getting more over the top and corny and I got older and didnt care for it. The new games look great and I love that they put cameos from movie monsters and so on but I still am not into the combat of these games and I just dont care about them. The new ones have tag teaming right? makes me care even LESS!
 
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My experience of seeing MK in the arcades is something i will never forget. I saw two kids one was playin sub zero vs scorpion.

Scorpion hookin the dude and sayin GET OVER HERE and hitting while a bunch of blood flew over the place shocked me. I couldnt believe what I was seeing. I was fuckin mystified...but that didnt prepare me for what happened next.

the Sub zero player won and the background went dark and the blue ninja pulled off the other dudes head and held it up.

Then this BOOMING music

FATALITY

I mean...

I dont know what else I can say. I couldnt buy the game (eventually It would be released on SNES but it doesnt have it in the game and the novelty had worn off somewhat by then) but I wanted to just stay in the arcade forever. I didnt even have to play it, just wanted to watch, and see what the fatalities for the other guys were. There was even rumors that some kid committed suicide over this game. it was fuckin wild, and yeah Goro was the SHIT back then. A truly unique video game character that had influenced alot of fighting games ever since. I still like Kintaro better, cos he has the stage where the evil crowd screams in MK II
 
Adon looks like he should be in fuckin Prince of persia or some shit.

wtf
We don't have items to create him good, so went for redesign

Alt version i did is more a recreation, but without some Muay Thai stuff they must still release (and that likely we will not get till Sagat inclusion) is very basic and lacks detail

(timestamped)
 
My experience of seeing MK in the arcades is something i will never forget. I saw two kids one was playin sub zero vs scorpion.

Scorpion hookin the dude and sayin GET OVER HERE and hitting while a bunch of blood flew over the place shocked me. I couldnt believe what I was seeing. I was fuckin mystified...but that didnt prepare me for what happened next.

the Sub zero player won and the background went dark and the blue ninja pulled off the other dudes head and held it up.

Then this BOOMING music

FATALITY

I mean...

I dont know what else I can say. I couldnt buy the game (eventually It would be released on SNES but it doesnt have it in the game and the novelty had worn off somewhat by then) but I wanted to just stay in the arcade forever. I didnt even have to play it, just wanted to watch, and see what the fatalities for the other guys were. There was even rumors that some kid committed suicide over this game. it was fuckin wild, and yeah Goro was the SHIT back then. A truly unique video game character that had influenced alot of fighting games ever since. I still like Kintaro better, cos he has the stage where the evil crowd screams in MK II
Really MK was always a question of right time right place for me, pretty soon after SF2 with edgy bloody combat. I think MK 2 held up the interest by going heavily towards easter eggs which were really popular(all the different fatalties, etc) in that era but after that point the teenage boy market I think shifting more towards Killer Instincts combos and then Tekken's 3D plus MK's designs were starting to look increasingly cheap.

Honestly though I thin in retrospect more standard 2D fighters from the mid/late 90's hold up far better, Street Fighters, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Darkstalkers, Samurai Showdown, Last Blade, etc but in mechanics and looks.
 
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Really MK was always a question of right time right place for me, pretty soon after SF2 with edgy bloody combat. I think MK 2 held up the interest by going heavily towards easter eggs which were really popular(all the different fatalties, etc) in that era but after that point the teenage boy market I think shifting more towards Killer Instincts combos and then Tekken's 3D plus MK's designs were starting to look increasingly cheap.

Honestly though I thin in retrospect more standard 2D fighters from the mid/late 90's hold up far better, Street Fighters, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Darkstalkers, Samurai Showdown, Last Blade, etc but in mechanics and looks.
MK2's presentation was incredible. That's how to make a game look sound and feel. It was so much better than the first game in every way. It was jaw dropping how different it was. The combat still wasn't deep....but for 1994 it was OK.

At the same time street fighter kept on trotting out different versions of the same game. Mk2 was a completely different game.
 
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MK2's presentation was incredible. That's how to make a game look sound and feel. It was so much better than the first game in every way. It was jaw dropping how different it was. The combat still wasn't deep....but for 1994 it was OK.

At the same time street fighter kept on trotting out different versions of the same game. Mk2 was a completely different game.
I actually thin something people ignore when it comes to popularity of games is whether they were "fair" or not, not such a big factor on consoles perhaps but in the arcade especially I do think developers making games overly hard to maximise arcade owners income was a factor. MK2 was obviously legendary there but Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was as well.
 
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I actually thin something people ignore when it comes to popularity of games is whether they were "fare" or not, not such a big factor on consoles perhaps but in the arcade especially I do think developers making games overly hard to maximise arcade owners income was a factor. MK2 was obviously legendary there but Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo was as well.
It 100% was a factor. Games were designed to get players to spend more money. In old arcade fighting games they used to have bosses or mini bosses that felt impossible to beat, and in some cases were, just so you could spend more money on the machine. The amount of money spent before the average person became good enough to beat the game was a focal point.
 
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It 100% was a factor. Games were designed to get players to spend more money. In old arcade fighting games they used to have bosses or mini bosses that felt impossible to beat, and in some cases were, just so you could spend more money on the machine. The amount of money spent before the average person became good enough to beat the game was a focal point.
I tend to think though when it really became an issue was when it wasnt just the boss which was unfairly difficult but the game as a whole. With Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat I think you could argue Capcom/Midway got greedy and bent to arcade owners too much with Super Turbo and MK 2 making the games so difficult from the early stages that they turned away casual players.

Super Turbo especially is lauded these days but honestly I feel that game was really what sent SF into a downturn, partly because it was recycling so much 3 years after SF2 but also because it was so unforgiving it really turned off causal audience to SF.
 
I tend to think though when it really became an issue was when it wasnt just the boss which was unfairly difficult but the game as a whole. With Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat I think you could argue Capcom/Midway got greedy and bent to arcade owners too much with Super Turbo and MK 2 making the games so difficult from the early stages that they turned away casual players.

Super Turbo especially is lauded these days but honestly I feel that game was really what sent SF into a downturn, partly because it was recycling so much 3 years after SF2 but also because it was so unforgiving it really turned off causal audience to SF.
Video games weren't looked at viable due to their difficulty back then. It was just whether or not they were fun. Nobody gave a shit about how hard Megaman 2 or Battletoads was until I was in highschool. Thats when I first started seeing that kind of stuff. Street Fighter was still very popular and had 30 iterations of 2 despite that stuff too.

It went

SF2
SF2 Turbo
Super SF2
Super SF2 Turbo
Alpha

All within like 4 years, Alpha 2 came out a year after Alpha 1 IIRC, there wasn't some cycle they were stuck in, they were selling tons of arcade units.
 
Video games weren't looked at viable due to their difficulty back then. It was just whether or not they were fun. Nobody gave a shit about how hard Megaman 2 or Battletoads was until I was in highschool. Thats when I first started seeing that kind of stuff. Street Fighter was still very popular and had 30 iterations of 2 despite that stuff too.

It went

SF2
SF2 Turbo
Super SF2
Super SF2 Turbo
Alpha

All within like 4 years, Alpha 2 came out a year after Alpha 1 IIRC, there wasn't some cycle they were stuck in, they were selling tons of arcade units.
It depends a lot on the environment of course, in the arcade difficulty becomes more of a factor because your paying for each credit. Having a difficult boss is one thing, you could still get a lot of your moneys worth before then but something liek Super Turbo new players would likely have struggled to even beat the first CPU fight.

Recycling SF2 so much was definitely an issue as well I'd agree(even moreso when you consider how common bootleg hacked versions were in arcades) but I thin the above was also a significant factor which helped turn a lot of more causal players away from SF.

I do think SF3 got the short end of the stick rather, being blamed for being a failure when I think really Capcom were reaping what had been sown years before losing any new audience, they were left with a more hardcore audience who rejected the shift in mechanics at first. Ironically I would argue SF3 is arguebly much more newbie friendly than latter SF or Alpha games, you don't really need to play the advanced mechanics and the CPUs are also much more fun to play rather than imput readers you need to cheese out.
 
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It 100% was a factor. Games were designed to get players to spend more money. In old arcade fighting games they used to have bosses or mini bosses that felt impossible to beat, and in some cases were, just so you could spend more money on the machine. The amount of money spent before the average person became good enough to beat the game was a focal point.
I didnt notice it back then.

I was a hardcore gamer and just beat games to death.


After not playing MK II for a long time, I go back to it now and the game cheats to an insane degree. it's almost impossible to land a projectile on the AI hahaha

But I play games more cerebral now,and I can "figure out" how to "trick" the AI into losing to me.

I played through all the Samurai Shodown games, and it was similar...but if you paid enough attention and got crafty, you could "learn" how to beat them, even if they were totally unfair.
 
Really MK was always a question of right time right place for me, pretty soon after SF2 with edgy bloody combat. I think MK 2 held up the interest by going heavily towards easter eggs which were really popular(all the different fatalties, etc) in that era but after that point the teenage boy market I think shifting more towards Killer Instincts combos and then Tekken's 3D plus MK's designs were starting to look increasingly cheap.

Honestly though I thin in retrospect more standard 2D fighters from the mid/late 90's hold up far better, Street Fighters, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Darkstalkers, Samurai Showdown, Last Blade, etc but in mechanics and looks.
Glorious japanese superiority :D

As kid i liked MK, in early/mid run of teenager years found it progressively worse till today that i can't watch it lol

It had basically same run of pro-wrestling <lol>
 


That last player probably had "Perfect parry Justin Wong with Ken" on their bucket list.

Justin had to face "Moment 37" several times in that video^ <6>




"Moment 37"

For those that don't know, in this iteration of Street Fighter, to perfect parry, you had to do it manually at the exact moment. It was ULTRA RARE to see it live and in person.

This is what made Daigo a legend.
 


That last player probably had "Perfect parry Justin Wong with Ken" on their bucket list.

Justin had to face "Moment 37" several times in that video^ <6>




"Moment 37"

For those that don't know, in this iteration of Street Fighter, to perfect parry, you had to do it manually at the exact moment. It was ULTRA RARE to see it live and in person.

This is what made Daigo a legend.

Its 10 frames for normal parry, 3 frames on normals for Red and 2 for supers IIRC.

For Chuns super you have to input the parry at the flash, basically before the input. but you can still block if you don't get it. I always found it easier to eat the initial part and red parry into a punish over the EVO moment. There is just a lot you have to be aware about vs Chun.
 
got a Qanba Obsidian for a sweet deal from someone on fb marketplace. they also gave me a free Hori Mini for driving to them.

also, playing mvc2 against my friend (we like to do first to ten wins; randomized teams each match) has been fun, but also a MASSIVE FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS. they seriously couldn’t update the local lan versus setup for this? god forbid add a character randomizer at the very least? idk how much longer we’ll last before just switching back to umvc3, even though the actual matches themselves are a blast
 
I am so tired of playing vs Mai's

Shes fun, but for fucks sake its just trouble shooting retards who don't know how to play the game. I seriously dont know how much more I can take of this. It's like Bison and Akuma all over again. At least Mai isn't oppressively stupid like Bison. She's still pretty gnarly though.
 
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