Fighters who retired too early

[StonedLemur]

I'm damn near always somewhere in the middle, it's true lol

I could feel your indecision here lol

 

[TheMadHatter]

Bj, chuck, Anderson. Think they had a few more years in them

youre in luck. Silva vs Sonnen 3 in a few weeks

 

[Clark Rogers]

I could feel your indecision here lol

You should witness dinner time. Fucks sake it's maddening.

 

[TheBulge]

Francis has the touch of death. Would you opt to grapple as the first option when you can just touch their chin and get them out of there? I know if I was Francis wrestling wouldn't be my first option either. I don't think it's fair to judge Francis on the Lewis fight. He was clearly not himself there. I don't agree regarding Arvloski, he actually has submission wins and has grappled in his past fights. We've yet to see Sergai do any kind of grappling nor does he have a submission win to his name. Not to mention he got tooled by Oldereem in the clinch and looked like a lost child off his back before getting finished. Sergei being well rounded is a myth.

You don't think the Lewis fight is "fair" because it shits on your theory of Francis being well rounded. If he truly was then he would have taken Lewis down who has weak defensive grappling.

 

[djacobox372]

Dude beat wand, henderson, overeem, sakuraba, and arguably Fedor... all in their primes. Retired at just 31yo.

 

[El Fernas]

Khabib, GSP retitred at the exact time imho.

 

[Fight Professor]

Yuji Nagata. He got a couple of mismatches in MMA.

 

[Xanzito]

Randy Couture. He was a young boy when he retired.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I always think of Chad Mendes. He was 33 and ran into Alexander Volkanovski who was unheralded and ranked 10th at the time. He almost put Volk out at one point but got overwhelmed by the pace and finished. He took that as a sign he was past it and retired. Then Volk goes on an insane run and becomes one of the greatest fighters of all time.

I wouldn't see Mendes ever winning a title but he could have been a contender for at least the next few years. I think he smokes the good not great guys hanging around the top 5 now like Ortega and Yair.

Mendes is a solid pick for retired too early. I think what hurt him the most was being forced to sit out 2.5 years of his prime due to his skin cream being contaminated with horsemeat. Dude went life and death with Aldo and IMO could and should have beaten McG if he'd had a full camp. If he'd stuck around longer, probably would have been like pre-BMF Holloway at 145 without the belt but if he'd had those 2.5 years back, I think his fight with Volk could have gone either way.

 

[blaseblase]

That's a bit different because Aspinall's dad is a BJJ guy and Tom has been training since he was a child. Ngannou went to France in hopes of getting boxing training.

There's also a difference in doing that to Volkov (who admittedly has always had an achilles heel when it comes to defensive wrestling) who is someone that's been a decent HW since his time in Bellator a decade ago, and Anthony Hamilton who was mediocre at best in the UFC.

Fwiw I don't think Francis is one-dimensional, I just don't think him subbing a can is the way to prove it. Especially when he himself said that he learned that move backstage before the fight, being a specimen lets you get away with all sorts of stuff.

Volkov is a better fighter than Hamilton, not necessarily a better grappler. I followed his Bellator career, he's always had a weakness to grappling.

Ngannou is clearly an above average grappler, he just doesn't get a chance to use it that often because he KOs fools so quickly. Its ignorant to call him one dimensional when he's got better grappling than 90% of the roster. Who else is taking Stipe's back?

 

[ThePimblettEra]

Brendan "The Hybrid" Schaub.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

You don't think the Lewis fight is "fair" because it shits on your theory of Francis being well rounded. If he truly was then he would have taken Lewis down who has weak defensive grappling.

No I don't think it's fair because he wasn't even mentally there for that fight. If he was truly well rounded he would have taken Lewis down? saying someone isn't something because they didn't do the right thing in a fight doesn't mean they still aren't that thing. Going by your logic Curtis Blaydes isn't well rounded because he didn't wrestle in his fight with Sergei nor Derrick. Also, Derrick Lewis' grappling defense isn't weak. He's only been finished twice on the ground, once by DC and the other by Spivac. In the latter he wasn't at 100% due to being sick from the weight cut yet it still took Spivac a while to sub him. Should I also mention how Derrick managed to fight off Almeida for 5 rounds as well? If his defensive grappling was that weak he'd have gotten taken down and subbed within the first minute like Rozenstruik.

 

[blaseblase]

You don't think the Lewis fight is "fair" because it shits on your theory of Francis being well rounded. If he truly was then he would have taken Lewis down who has weak defensive grappling.

Neither fighter did shit in that fight, using that to access skill is noob level analysis. It's like arguing Rose isn't skilled based on her rematch with Esparza. Surely you're better than that.

 

[TheBulge]

No I don't think it's fair because he wasn't even mentally there for that fight. If he was truly well rounded he would have taken Lewis down? saying someone isn't something because they didn't do the right thing in a fight doesn't mean they still aren't that thing. Going by your logic Curtis Blaydes isn't well rounded because he didn't wrestle in his fight with Sergei nor Derrick. Also, Derrick Lewis' grappling defense isn't weak. He's only been finished twice on the ground, once by DC and the other by Spivac. In the latter he wasn't at 100% due to being sick from the weight cut yet it still took Spivac a while to sub him. Should I also mention how Derrick managed to fight off Almeida for 5 rounds as well? If his defensive grappling was that weak he'd have gotten taken down and subbed within the first minute like Rozenstruik.

You did not expect that fight to be brought up so you have no counter argument other than elementary level "that's not fair" or "doesn't count". The Lewis fight proves that Ngannou is not well rounded and that your debating skills are infantile.

Are you still the same genius who used the Gane fight to somehow prove Ngannou is well rounded? Because I will tell you again it only proved that Gane is possibly the worst grappler in UFC HW history.

What exactly did Ngannou do anyway? Nice slam but other than laying on top of Gane he didn't pass guard, didn't threaten any subs, didn't deliver any ground and pound which he is capable of. It was a hail mary because his knees were shot in that fight. It only worked because Gane is that bad. Don't believe me? Look at the last fight when a competent grappler took him down. How come the super well rounded Ngannou did nothing, absofuckinglutely nothing with all that time he had with top control?

Because he's a striker with supernatural strength good for TDD and taking a sub-novice to the ground. Doesn't make him well rounded. Just like Lesnar wasn't a great striker because he ko'd Couture, and various other anomalies. That's as clear as I can put it.

 

[TheBulge]

Neither fighter did shit in that fight, using that to access skill is noob level analysis. It's like arguing Rose isn't skilled based on her rematch with Esparza. Surely you're better than that.

Neither fighter did shit in that fight because it was a stalemate of their strengths being cancelled out, meaning they had nothing else to fall back on which proves neither fighter is "well rounded".

 

[blaseblase]

Neither fighter did shit in that fight because it was a stalemate of their strengths being cancelled out, meaning they had nothing else to fall back on which proves neither fighter is "well rounded".

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I guess you're not better than that. It had nothing to do with their strengths canceling out because neither of them tried to use their strength. They stood in front of each other in a staring contest. Neither fighter has done that before or after. There's this little term called "context" that you clearly need to learn about.

 

[TheBulge]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but I guess you're not better than that. It had nothing to do with their strengths canceling out because neither of them tried to use their strength. They stood in front of each other in a staring contest. Neither fighter has done that before or after. There's this little term called "context" that you clearly need to learn about.

Lewis froze up like that in several fights. Ngannou froze standing against Gane though you could argue it was the shot knees. Once again you are wrong.

Speaking as someone who is well aware of the level of intellect around here, never did I think it would be so bad I'd be debating several rock scientist who insist upon Francis Ngannou of all people is "well rounded".

Let me repeat that: several sherdoggers in this thread actually believe Francis Ngannou is well rounded.

 

[CatchtheseHands]

You did not expect that fight to be brought up so you have no counter argument other than elementary level "that's not fair" or "doesn't count". The Lewis fight proves that Ngannou is not well rounded and that your debating skills are infantile.

Are you still the same genius who used the Gane fight to somehow prove Ngannou is well rounded? Because I will tell you again it only proved that Gane is possibly the worst grappler in UFC HW history.

What exactly did Ngannou do anyway? Nice slam but other than laying on top of Gane he didn't pass guard, didn't threaten any subs, didn't deliver any ground and pound which he is capable of. It was a hail mary because his knees were shot in that fight. It only worked because Gane is that bad. Don't believe me? Look at the last fight when a competent grappler took him down. How come the super well rounded Ngannou did nothing, absofuckinglutely nothing with all that time he had with top control?

Because he's a striker with supernatural strength good for TDD and taking a sub-novice to the ground. Doesn't make him well rounded. Just like Lesnar wasn't a great striker because he ko'd Couture, and various other anomalies. That's as clear as I can put it.

Are you trolling? I literally just gave my counter argument here and how what you're saying is stupid.

No I don't think it's fair because he wasn't even mentally there for that fight. If he was truly well rounded he would have taken Lewis down? saying someone isn't something because they didn't do the right thing in a fight doesn't mean they still aren't that thing. Going by your logic Curtis Blaydes isn't well rounded because he didn't wrestle in his fight with Sergei nor Derrick. Also, Derrick Lewis' grappling defense isn't weak. He's only been finished twice on the ground, once by DC and the other by Spivac. In the latter he wasn't at 100% due to being sick from the weight cut yet it still took Spivac a while to sub him. Should I also mention how Derrick managed to fight off Almeida for 5 rounds as well? If his defensive grappling was that weak he'd have gotten taken down and subbed within the first minute like Rozenstruik.

Even if I don't use Gane, Francis still has 4 submission victory wins and out wrestled Stipe in their 2nd fight.

It doesn't matter what he does with the top control. The fact of the matter is he still took Gane down and had control time. If he were not well rounded he wouldn't be able to do that nor would he have been able to stop Stipe's wrestling in their 2nd fight.

Yeah because that super natural strength helped Francis in his first fight with Stipe. If that was really it and not him becoming more well rounded, he'd have been able to stop Stipe's wrestling in he first fight.

So I guess Jon being able to take down Gane and finish him quickly makes him not well rounded as well because Gane is the worst grappler at HW? Your logic is so bad dude. I refuse ot believe you aren't trolling.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Wouldn't mind seeing more of Cole Konrad with better coaching, tougher competition, and a good dietician.

 

[jx820]

Anytime someone says I'm done fighting... that's the perfect time to stop.