Fighters 3 Mile Time

[Brighty Boy]

Hi,

As part of my training I have been running 3 miles once or twice a week. Im really trying to improve my conditioning and build a strong base.

Over the last few weeks I have managed to get my time down from 28 mins to my current PB which is 24.50.

I have done a search and read some forums where people on Sherdog are running anything between 25mins and 17mins. (I appreciate that 17mins is stupid quick).

I am training to eventually compete and I want to know what the end goal should be. (try to avoid saying as quick as possible :icon_chee )

There a re a lot of fit people on here but not all are fighters. What is time that fighters are doing. What time should I be getting to in order for me to say "im in great physical shape"

Also - is 3 mile the ideal distance for fighters to train. Is it the closest to sport specific as running will get?

Also - check out my log for my progress http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=86686235

 

[FlowWithTheGo23]

As far as running goes, I think fighters do more sprint type stuff. Think of all the Countdowns where it shows GSP and Rashad doing sprints with parachutes.

 

[Brighty Boy]

I thought it was a mixture of both and sprint work closer to a fight..

 

[JauntyAngle]

Running isn't sports specific for fighting, because you rarely run while fighting. Other than in Caleb Starnes-type scenarios aside, or when you are abducted and forced to compete in a televised death match over a massive arena, like in The Running Man.

Long and slow running can be a useful part of GPP for fighters, and indeed many sports, because it develops the oxygen uptake and transport systems (the cardiovascular system). And for that, it doesn't really matter what exercise you are doing- what matters is that the intensity and the duration are optimal. Which is a way of saying- your aerobic capacity work doesn't necessarily need to be sports specific. (Of course, runners should develop their aerobic capacity by running, and cyclists by cycling, because there are other benefits to putting in the miles and the hours.)

As I understand it, if you want to do more intense, anaerobic work, your first port of call will always be fighting exercises, e.g. actually rolling, drills, heavy bag work. Second port of call will be specific movements that are used in fighting or resemble common movements in fighting, e.g pushing a sled for grapplers, maybe sandbag carries or something like that. High intensity running intervals will have some benefit- the tolerance of the muscles in your legs to fatigue will increase, and of course they will also add some variety to your training which is always good, but probably you will get more benefits if you use a more sport-specific movement. I gather that some people here use hill sprints as their main conditioning for fighting, or their main anaerobic conditioning, so I might be going against the grain. But this is as I understand it.

(As far as running 5k goes (sorry, 3 miles, or 4.8k) in one way you are in a no-man's land. For aerobic development, optimal speed is much less than your race speed and optimal duration is much longer. For training the anaerobic system, intensity is higher but duration is much shorter- your intervals might typically be anything from 10 seconds to a minute. However, training your 5k time does require you to do balanced training- to do distance work and to do various forms of higher intensity work like hill sprints or intervals. So if you wold just like to be a better runner, training properly for a 5k is not a bad approach, IMO.)

 

[Brighty Boy]

So in short - no one training MMA would use a 3 mile run as part of their conditioning? And in your opinion I am wasting my time trying to improve my time for 3 miles?

Obviously I do a lot of technique and sports specific conditioning during the week at my club. We do a lot of bag and pad work and not to mention the sparring. SO I thought adding some running in and building up to a decent time would actually give me more balance? I thought I read that I need to work both systems (not that I am going to pretend to understand it all).

Also - my initial way of thinking was this: The average fight is 15mins If I cant run 3 miles fast (almost sprint type run) then I will have enough gas to last a 5 round fight? Is that also not the case?

Your far more an expert than I am. I just cant see there not being a place for it in MMA

 

[JauntyAngle]

So in short - no one training MMA would use a 3 mile run as part of their conditioning? And in your opinion I am wasting my time trying to improve my time for 3 miles?

It's quite possible they might. I am sure there would be some circumstances. But for most fighters it probably wouldn't be optimal.

Obviously I do a lot of technique and sports specific conditioning during the week at my club. We do a lot of bag and pad work and not to mention the sparring. SO I thought adding some running in and building up to a decent time would actually give me more balance? I thought I read that I need to work both systems (not that I am going to pretend to understand it all).

The two systems are the aerobic system and the anaerobic system: for the aerobic system, long slow runs (or whatever other exercise done long and slow); for the anaerobic system, very intense activity using sports-specific movement.

Developing your 5k time might also have some useful benefits- you might further increase your aerobic capacity and you will increase the muscular endurance in your legs. But I can't see it being essential, and I suspect there would be better ways to achieve either of those things.

Also - my initial way of thinking was this: The average fight is 15mins If I cant run 3 miles fast (almost sprint type run) then I will have enough gas to last a 5 round fight? Is that also not the case?

Your far more an expert than I am. I just cant see there not being a place for it in MMA

I am not an expert, I am really just at conditioning 101 level. But...

There is a place for almost everything, if you have the time and recovery to spare. Will working on your 5k increase your aerobic capacity? Yes, probably. Will it increase the muscular endurance in your legs? Yes. Would it do that better than, say, using the time for long and slow runs and more sports-specific endurance drills? Probably not. If you could do everything why not? Get a great 5k time on top of everything else you need to do- it will probably develop some qualities that you won't get otherwise. But most people have to prioritize their training.

As far as the "if I can run really fast for 15 minutes, how can I have the gas for a 15 minute fight?" argument... running is one thing, fighting is another. Conditioning is fairly sports specific meaning that you can be in good shape for one particular activity, and much less good shape for another activity. You'll be in good enough shape to fight for 15 minutes when you can fight for 15 minutes. Not when you can do some other completely different activity for 15 minutes. After all, why take running as your benchmark- why say "I have to be able to run for 15 minutes to be in shape for a fight"? Why not take some other exercise that is also nothing like fighting and say "I have to be able to squat my bodyweight for 15 minutes continually" or "I have to be able to handstand pushups continually for 15 minutes" or "I have to be able to the Jitterbug continually for 15 minutes".

And I just want to repeat- I like running, I also try to work on my 5k sometimes, and I am not going to tell someone not to do something that they like doing. Doing things that are not optimal but keep you in shape and active is a good thing, too. It just shouldn't be a high priority.

 

[TheeFaulted]

Just some thoughts:

I compete in amateur boxing and I never run 3 miles at a time. I know several other guys I train with that run that distance almost daily. Conditioning wise, I feel like I have done fine at the level I'm competing at. I should also mention I compete as a heavyweight.

I also spent many years wrestling, and still train with a college wrestling team. Running is a big part of the pre-season with wrestling, but we don't do as much running in season as we do in boxing.

In any point I think since you are competing in a combat sport and not a race, the distance or time you spend running is more important that your time/speed. This is because running is just a means to elevate your heart rate and build your conditioning threshold. (One of the other guys on here can explain this much better than myself.)

 

[TheeFaulted]

Also - my initial way of thinking was this: The average fight is 15mins If I cant run 3 miles fast (almost sprint type run) then I will have enough gas to last a 5 round fight? Is that also not the case?

If you are going for 15 minutes, then it's no where near a sprint though.

 

[Brighty Boy]

Ok - thats all brialliant and I am learning a lot. SO I have a question.

If I am training MMA/BJJ 4 times per week or so. And during that time I am doing a lot of sport specific training. Then on another 2 occassions I am strength training working on explosive movements or my squats, dealifts etc.

Im left with 1 maybe 2 training slots left and I cant go to class cause these times are outside of class.

What should I do? (I was using this time to run my 3 Miles)

 

[Brighty Boy]

If you are going for 15 minutes, then it's no where near a sprint though.

Can you run 3 miles in sub 15 mins? My current pb iw 24.50 so 15 mins for me would be an impossible task at this stage.

 

[CPP]

What should I do? (I was using this time to run my 3 Miles)

Jogging. You probably already get enough high intensity (anaerobic) training at your technique classes. It's good to have a balance of aerobic and anaerobic conditioning. Anaerobic makes your heart walls thicker, aerobic makes your heart chambers bigger. Together your heart will be pumping more volume faster.

So run those 3 miles or make it 4 and go slow. Try to keep your heart rate below 135, which means no mouth breathing. 45 minutes is a nice amount to start with.

Also more stretching/mobility work. Can even do yoga if you have curtains so no one can see. Yoga usually stays in the aerobic zone as well.

 

[JauntyAngle]

Ok - thats all brialliant and I am learning a lot. SO I have a question.

If I am training MMA/BJJ 4 times per week or so. And during that time I am doing a lot of sport specific training. Then on another 2 occassions I am strength training working on explosive movements or my squats, dealifts etc.

Im left with 1 maybe 2 training slots left and I cant go to class cause these times are outside of class.

What should I do? (I was using this time to run my 3 Miles)

Well, a fairly natural option is roadwork. Just a slow, easy run (or something else like the C2 rower, cross-trainer, or whatever). Try to go for at least 40 minutes, don't kill yourself. Gradually increase the speed and the mileage/time. After a while you may want to change that up, but it will probably be worthwhile for the next 3-6 months.

 

[cooks1]

(As far as running 5k goes (sorry, 3 miles, or 4.8k) in one way you are in a no-man's land. For aerobic development, optimal speed is much less than your race speed and optimal duration is much longer.

This is spot on.

Running 3 miles in 24-28 minutes is not gonna do a ton for you except burn a few calories. If your gonna run that speed, you need to go for north of an hour.

When I was wrestling at Clemson, my 3 mile time was just over 17:00 on the track, but we usually ran a more scenic, hilly route over different terrain, and my times varied from 17:45- 19:30 depending on the difficulty of the route. That was on the fast end of the team, but far from the fastest. We also ran stadiums, sprints, and suicides.

By the way, if you want to improve your 3 mile time, do it by running faster quarter and half mile intervals, and by doing sprints. Don't do it by just trying to run 3 miles a little faster each time. that will take forever.

I highly encourage devoting the time to getting yourself up to a ggod 5 k time. Under 20 minute or so. Because, once you get yourself to run at those kind of speeds, it's almost like your cardio never completely disappears, no matter how little you exercise, or how long you go without it. I am 44 years old, and usually weigh between 200 and 240 depending on the time of year and my mood. I am usually at my fattest around new years after all the Thanksgiving, Xmas, and New year gluttony. Even at 240 lbs and not having run for a couple of months, I can go out and run 3 miles in 24 minutes or so without a ton of fuss.

 

[Brighty Boy]

Jogging. You probably already get enough high intensity (anaerobic) training at your technique classes. It's good to have a balance of aerobic and anaerobic conditioning. Anaerobic makes your heart walls thicker, aerobic makes your heart chambers bigger. Together your heart will be pumping more volume faster.

So run those 3 miles or make it 4 and go slow. Try to keep your heart rate below 135, which means no mouth breathing. 45 minutes is a nice amount to start with.

Also more stretching/mobility work. Can even do yoga if you have curtains so no one can see. Yoga usually stays in the aerobic zone as well.

I do chuck in the odd bit of yago but maybe only once every 2-3 weeks....

Since we spoke in my journal I have been doing dynamic stretching several times per week. Its really starting to help my kicking. I done it twiceover the weekend.

 

[Brighty Boy]

Well, a fairly natural option is roadwork. Just a slow, easy run (or something else like the C2 rower, cross-trainer, or whatever). Try to go for at least 40 minutes, don't kill yourself. Gradually increase the speed and the mileage/time. After a while you may want to change that up, but it will probably be worthwhile for the next 3-6 months.

OK so increase my distance and try to go for an hour. Then maybe I can monitor how far I go. I need to get a heart rate monitoer me thinks. Chabnge my emphasis to howlong I go for not how quick I go?

 

[TheeFaulted]

These guys pretty much nailed what I was going to say. Use your roadwork to do LSD/LISS.

 

[Brighty Boy]

This is spot on.

Running 3 miles in 24-28 minutes is not gonna do a ton for you except burn a few calories. If your gonna run that speed, you need to go for north of an hour.

When I was wrestling at Clemson, my 3 mile time was just over 17:00 on the track, but we usually ran a more scenic, hilly route over different terrain, and my times varied from 17:45- 19:30 depending on the difficulty of the route. That was on the fast end of the team, but far from the fastest. We also ran stadiums, sprints, and suicides.

By the way, if you want to improve your 3 mile time, do it by running faster quarter and half mile intervals, and by doing sprints. Don't do it by just trying to run 3 miles a little faster each time. that will take forever.

I highly encourage devoting the time to getting yourself up to a ggod 5 k time. Under 20 minute or so. Because, once you get yourself to run at those kind of speeds, it's almost like your cardio never completely disappears, no matter how little you exercise, or how long you go without it. I am 44 years old, and usually weigh between 200 and 240 depending on the time of year and my mood. I am usually at my fattest around new years after all the Thanksgiving, Xmas, and New year gluttony. Even at 240 lbs and not having run for a couple of months, I can go out and run 3 miles in 24 minutes or so without a ton of fuss.

Im defo not going to quit on my 3 Mile time. I haver ot reach my target of 21 mins or it will bug me.

 

[bowlie]

Running isn't sports specific for fighting, because you rarely run while fighting. Other than in Caleb Starnes-type scenarios aside, or when you are abducted and forced to compete in a televised death match over a massive arena, like in The Running Man.

Long and slow running can be a useful part of GPP for fighters, and indeed many sports, because it develops the oxygen uptake and transport systems (the cardiovascular system). And for that, it doesn't really matter what exercise you are doing- what matters is that the intensity and the duration are optimal. Which is a way of saying- your aerobic capacity work doesn't necessarily need to be sports specific. (Of course, runners should develop their aerobic capacity by running, and cyclists by cycling, because there are other benefits to putting in the miles and the hours.)

As I understand it, if you want to do more intense, anaerobic work, your first port of call will always be fighting exercises, e.g. actually rolling, drills, heavy bag work. Second port of call will be specific movements that are used in fighting or resemble common movements in fighting, e.g pushing a sled for grapplers, maybe sandbag carries or something like that. High intensity running intervals will have some benefit- the tolerance of the muscles in your legs to fatigue will increase, and of course they will also add some variety to your training which is always good, but probably you will get more benefits if you use a more sport-specific movement. I gather that some people here use hill sprints as their main conditioning for fighting, or their main anaerobic conditioning, so I might be going against the grain. But this is as I understand it.

(As far as running 5k goes (sorry, 3 miles, or 4.8k) in one way you are in a no-man's land. For aerobic development, optimal speed is much less than your race speed and optimal duration is much longer. For training the anaerobic system, intensity is higher but duration is much shorter- your intervals might typically be anything from 10 seconds to a minute. However, training your 5k time does require you to do balanced training- to do distance work and to do various forms of higher intensity work like hill sprints or intervals. So if you wold just like to be a better runner, training properly for a 5k is not a bad approach, IMO.)

Im with you there, but I also think that sprints are one of the best plyometric exercises for the legs. Not that everyone needs to do plyos, but if you are one of the people that does, it might help

 

[cooks1]

Im defo not going to quit on my 3 Mile time. I haver ot reach my target of 21 mins or it will bug me.

21 is totally doable. For just about anyone.

Once or twice a week, instead of a 3 mile run, do a half mile warm up run, stretch really well, and try and run 12 quarter mile intervals at a time of 1:40 each (That's a 20 minute 3 mile pace). Or perhaps 6 half mile intervals at 3:20. Resting maybe a minute between intervals. Then finish up with another slow half mile and another really good stretch.

Once you are able to do that, you have a lot of options to keep improving your 3 mile times. You can either continue the same intervals with less rest time between (that really ramps up intensity). Or you can keep the rest period the same, but set a faster target time for the interval. Or you can set a longer interval (say 4X 1 mile intervals at 6:40) with the rest period the same. Any of those will increase the intensity of the session and improve your time.

Also, once a week go, on a much longer run, 5-8 miles at whatever pace you can manage to complete the run.

If you cant be bothered with interval training like this, just run as many 100 or 200 yard sprints as fast as you can after you finish your 3 mile runs. That will help as well.

 

[bowlie]

This thread brings up an interesting question. How do you bench mark with exercises without skill interfering? What I mean is someone that runs every day might increase their running speed purely through learning to run, and might think they are fitter as a result, when really they are just better at running. The same came up in my training. I wanted to increase my hamstring strength drastically, but if I took an exercise (say hamstring curls and tested my max, then tried to increase that isnt it possible I do so by getting better at that exercise, not by getting stronger?

Would the answer be to test yourself in something you never do? I.e. if running is your main form of conditioning, test yourself every month cycling?