Feminism, Sexism, and Entitlement

[SowingSeason]

I was going to comment that I see it a lot, but often I think the men just want to have sex with the women they are helping/protecting/w.e.

lol

That's not on women that y'all are ran by your dicks.

 

[Deadred2]

On a lot of the feminist blogs and other stuff I see, terms like 'toxic masculinity' are commonplace. It is okay to define something like that around the male gender, but there is no way 'toxic femininity' would ever get used in any context on the same blog. Bad power structure = 'Patriarchy', etc. I understand where it came from - at one point men really did have most of the power and women very little.

However, shaming and guilting one entire sex while raising the other above rebuke doesn't seem very effective. I think both parties would be more willing to participate if it was framed around both sexes.

Right now, I think a lot of men come across this kind of stuff, see the way arguments are framed and how extreme some of the language in arguments is, (or see that they are told they can never get 100% consent and even 'yes' still means maybe) and roll their eyes and move on. I mean there are real issues there, but I am not going to get engaged in something about rape culture if the language used vaguely damns the fact I was born with a penis and equates me with rapists.

It should be about egalitarianism and these problems won't go anywhere (including those that largely affect women) without engaging and involving everyone (including men) in the solutions, no matter who/what is or was at fault.

I have to admit, the feminists who claim that a man's a "Rape Supporter" based on a list which basically all men will fall into due to its vagueness is not worth anyone's time, but is worth a chuckle or two.

I tend not to pay attention to the extremists who are "man haters" and or "woman haters." I feel it's important that we embrace love and equality among all people, and the smartest way to do that is through education and welcoming these people into an open discussion so that they may hear how they sound in comparison with the rest of the world. I'm always willing to listen and consider another point of view, even if it goes against my own set of beliefs.

 

[BownArrow]

gently vs genitally

a blatant typo

Considering the context? No, dude, he's a . Back away from that guy, he's bad news.

 

[hohner]

Lol no it means we are cannon fodder while women are protected at home safe from harm. Lol valued to die! I'm flattered

You are making the mistake of having your opinion completely formulated and searching for ways to make "facts" support it. The fact that men have to sign up for the draft means women are held higher in society? That is an absurd way to look at that issue.

 

[BEER]

Since I'm growing tired of writing incredibly long-winded replies I'll give you the cliff-notes version and let you pick out what strikes you the most.

1. In general women are actually more valued than men by society. This is best demonstrated by the fact that men are required to sign up for the draft at 18 while women can elect whether they want to or not.

2. Men often pursue power, money, and the like more so than women because our society often bases a man's worth on the power he possesses rather than who he is as a person.

3. Women who often commit the same crimes as men get off the hook more easily simply because of their gender, or in the case of violent crimes, will claim what they did is justified due to a man abusing her. Yet if a man were to make the same claim of a woman abusing him, it would be far less regarded.

I can't really remember any others off the top of my head, I'd have to do some more research to remember the rest.

None of these things show that women are more valued in society. In fact, it shows the opposite. If men are required to sign up for selective service, socially pressured to pursue money and power, and are more likely to be convicted of violent crimes, it tells me that men are being held to a higher standard. They are being held accountable for the social roles laid out for them, BECAUSE society views man to be more valuable than women.

 

[Josh]

lol

That's not on women that y'all are ran by your dicks.

Hate crime of gender!

 

[ocean size]

lol

That's not on women that y'all are ran by your dicks.

Yeah true, but half of the chivalry thing is that a lot of women do like being doted on and treated like a lady. If they were all like LET ME DO IT!!!! IM FINE!! we'd see a lot less white knighting.

I'm not complaining or anything, but 1. it's how a lot of men are raised 2. many women like it and expect it, so it will continue.

 

[Memory**]

You are making the mistake of having your opinion completely formulated and searching for ways to make "facts" support it. The fact that men have to sign up for the draft means women are held higher in society? That is an absurd way to look at that issue.

no pretty sure being chosen to die in the hell of modern warfare while other don't have to is pretty clear cut as to who is disposable.

 

[BEER]

Such as the intrinsic value of human life? Or how about individual freedom?

You saying that human life nor individual freedom have ever been for sale?

Someone high five this man.

 

[Deadred2]

Again, your comments are relative to only a small minority of women and cultures on the planet today. But that seems to be the theme here, disparage women on the whole, and then specialize the target further as your arguments are neutered. A specific class of women in a specific culture that makes up a very small minority of the women in the world have achieved what you claim. It is not time to give up on equality for all women.

I'm not trying to advocate giving up on equality for women worldwide, but I am trying to make a point that we can't lose equality for others in the process. As I've stated, this is in regard to my country, not the entire world.

 

[panamaican]

The expectation that needs to end is the expectation that women will never be able to handle themselves.

It is okay to make a personal choice, as a woman, to prefer the traditional outlook. That doesn't need to change.

And it is perfectly okay for a man to assume the responsibility that has been traditionally expected.

It is not okay for the expectation to be commonplace in this day and age. Personal choices aside, the only expectation is that women can most certainly defend themselves, provide for themselves, and live outside of male control.

No offense but the last one doesn't jive with the first 2.

Regardless, I don't see the problem with it being common place? If it's acceptable for women to choose the traditional view then if enough women chose the traditional view then the expectation should be common place.

I'm not saying either is correct but insisting that the expectation not be common place seems rooted in the idea that the traditional choice should be the minority choice which ignores that female choice might lean the other way, doesn't it?

 

[SowingSeason]

no pretty sure being chosen to die in the hell of modern warfare while other don't have to is pretty clear cut as to who is disposable.

Women are deployed and are in combat positions nowadays.

Shit is evening out on that front.

 

[BownArrow]

Yeah true, but half of the chivalry thing is that a lot of women do like being doted on and treated like a lady. If they were all like LET ME DO IT!!!! IM FINE!! we'd see a lot less white knighting.

I'm not complaining or anything, but 1. it's how a lot of men are raised 2. many women like it and expect it, so it will continue.

Eh, women are people and they are as sexist as men sometimes, even in regards to themselves. I try to look at it this way- I do stuff I like for people I like because I like to. Or because I know they'd have a hard time doing something and could use some help. Gender plays a role in my decisions, of course, but I try to be fair and I'm not going to worry about that too much.

 

[tkotom]

The irony is that feminists are sexist. Plain and simple.

 

[SowingSeason]

Personally, yes. But my background is a West Indian and Hispanic where machismo is a larger part of the cultural underpinnings so some things are just how I was raised and I don't feel taken advantage of when I give in those values.

In an interesting contrast, my wife is not a woman waiting for male protection. So, she expects less of me than I expect of myself.

I think your marriage is an excellent example of what I think should be the male/female dynamic.

Both sides have the option to embrace whatever role they choose.
Your wife has a man that is willing and expects to protect her but she choose to be a little more independent. Just like you accept that she feels that way but you would still drop a fucker who was a danger to her.

That's all I want out of this at least.

 

[Memory**]

You saying that human life nor individual freedom have ever been for sale?

Someone high five this man.

Not because it was of the value placed upon it in a civilized worldview. :icon_neut but ok if you want to call a woman making a fake vagina out of meat or shoving paper up her vag to sell to rich people "progressive or promoting equality" I guess this is all lost on you. Just consolidates the fact that feminists pat themselves on the back for helping their lot despite being oblivious to their own privilege and ignorance to suffering outside of their middle class western interests.

 

[Deadred2]

I fail to see how point #1 means women are more valued by society. What it shows is that men are more valued by the military.

When you take it into perspective that men are required to sign up for the draft, have a shorter life expectancy than women, and make up roughly 93% of workplace related deaths, are more prevalent in the most dangerous jobs around, and that breast cancer receives roughly 700% more funding that prostate cancer, the first point comes together a bit more clearly in my mind. I could be incorrect, but the evidence seems to point in that direction.

 

[BownArrow]

no pretty sure being chosen to die in the hell of modern warfare while other don't have to is pretty clear cut as to who is disposable.

Well, historically women just couldn't fight in wars- they couldn't swing a sword or hold old guns. Even now it's the physical stuff that keeps them out, but they are catching up and working to get in the army. If women refused to go in the army because they felt they were too important, then you'd have a point. But women are trying to get into the army and aren't allowed in the infantry. And most people consider soldiers heroes.

 

[panamaican]

I think your marriage is an excellent example of what I think should be the male/female dynamic.

Both sides have the option to embrace whatever role they choose.
Your wife has a man that is willing and expects to protect her but she choose to be a little more independent. Just like you accept that she feels that way but you would still drop a fucker who was a danger to her.

That's all I want out of this at least.

Again...can't argue with that.

 

[SowingSeason]

The irony is that feminists are sexist. Plain and simple.

Not true feminists. We already touched on this.