Fedor strengths and weaknesses and his skillset in the UFC today (Long Thread)

[The Last King]

I don’t have to cause you know yur argument is bullshit but fine. Werdum won the heavyweight ufc belt older than fedor was when he got plooked by a middleweight n doom had been at it for double digit years. George Forman won the boxing hw belt at 50. DC won ufc hw belt while pushing 40 n it was after a long career that included all the wear n tear of wrestling. Randy won it at 43ish after a long career that span across wrestling boxing and mma. Sean O’Malley of all people has been fighting for 10ish years now and he’s better now than he was then n just a few years younger than when fedors strike force fail began.

what is hard to understand about the concept of a semi prime? It obviously means just “slightly” diminished from your prime. Everybody said fedor was number 1 when he went into the doom fight n lost then they said “oh it was a fluke look he rocked n dropped doom then got fluke subbed.” 2 losses with their respective excuses later n conveniently he’s out of his prime to save face.

you can’t always blame losses on leaving prime but rather a competition step up. Fedor was bigger than most of his opponents by the way so the giant that slayed Goliath myth needs to go away

Werdum started fighting years after Fedor and was also caught using PEDs.

Randy started fighting at 33 years old and was a PED user. You think he would be peaking at 40 years old if he started fighting professionally at 22 years old like Fedor? I doubt it.

DC like Randy started fighting at 32 years old. I doubt he would be peaking at 40 if he started fighting in his early 20s.

Foreman is an anomaly, obviously.

Fedor was still good when he started losing but there was no way he was still peaking in 2011, 8 years after becoming the world champion. Show me one MMA fighter who was still in their prime 8 years later after becoming the world champion.

Kobe Bryant was still good at 39 years old. He scored 60 points in his final game but he was still mentally and physically cooked by then and clearly past his prime.

I don't make excuses for Fedor. He lost. But there are a Group of posters on this forum who like to spin it like he was at his absolute best when he started losing which is just bullshit to make him look bad.

His coaches said he was slowing down since 2008. He lost in Sambo already and looked to be clearly declining around the Hunt- Lindland fights. He went on to still win a few more but by the time he fought AA and Rogers it was clear he was on the decline and that mixed results were coming.

 

[Fioretti]

Fedor had 30 fights 10 years into his career plus a sambo career. Glover had 20 fights ten years into his career and competed in BJJ but that's not full contact like sambo

I'd say it's easier for Glover to maintain longevity

Science.

 

[snugglecakes]

Werdum started fighting years after Fedor and was also caught using PEDs.

Randy started fighting at 33 years old and was a PED user. You think he would be peaking at 40 years old if he started fighting professionally at 22 years old like Fedor? I doubt it.

DC like Randy started fighting at 32 years old. I doubt he would be peaking at 40 if he started fighting in his early 20s.

Foreman is an anomaly, obviously.

Fedor was still good when he started losing but there was no way he was still peaking in 2011, 8 years after becoming the world champion. Show me one MMA fighter who was still in their prime 8 years later after becoming the world champion.

Kobe Bryant was still good at 39 years old. He scored 60 points in his final game but he was still mentally and physically cooked by then and clearly past his prime.

I don't make excuses for Fedor. He lost. But there are a Group of posters on this forum who like to spin it like he was at his absolute best when he started losing which is just bullshit to make him look bad.

His coaches said he was slowing down since 2008. He lost in Sambo already and looked to be clearly declining around the Hunt- Lindland fights. He went on to still win a few more but by the time he fought AA and Rogers it was clear he was on the decline and that mixed results were coming.

I made it quite clear that Randy’s career span across wrestling and boxing. This clock starts at your very first wrestling match during the youth. Let’s say Randy’s first match was like 13 right… so he already had 20 years of wear n tear when he started mma. He boxed for the army before mma too. Back to wrestling tho…. Straight wrestling might even be more taxing on the body than mma… at least to knees joints etc.. yuh know .. that things that usually get blamed when a fighter starts falling off.

the same deal with DC. The clock starts from his very first wrestling match when his age had a 1 in the tens place.

so yeah yur off by as much as 20 years from when they started n fedor was in pride so he was likely juicing too. He’d be dumb not to. It was legal allowed and encouraged there

 

[The Last King]

I made it quite clear that Randy’s career span across wrestling and boxing. This clock starts at your very first wrestling match during the youth. Let’s say Randy’s first match was like 13 right… so he already had 20 years of wear n tear when he started mma. He boxed for the army before mma too. Back to wrestling tho…. Straight wrestling might even be more taxing on the body than mma… at least to knees joints etc.. yuh know .. that things that usually get blamed when a fighter starts falling off.

the same deal with DC. The clock starts from his very first wrestling match when his age had a 1 in the tens place.

so yeah yur off by as much as 20 years from when they started n fedor was in pride so he was likely juicing too. He’d be dumb not to. It was legal allowed and encouraged there

Lol @ starting the clock from wrestling. Should we start the clock from Fedors judo/sambo journey when he was 10 years old?

No, because those aren't full contact sports where you're being punched and kicked in the head. Smh.

Randy and DC started professionally FIGHTING at 33. Fedor started professionally FIGHTING at 22.

 

[snugglecakes]

Lol @ starting the clock from wrestling. Should we start the clock from Fedors judo/sambo journey when he was 10 years old?

No, because those aren't full contact sports where you're being punched and kicked in the head. Smh.

Randy and DC started professionally FIGHTING at 33. Fedor started professionally FIGHTING at 22.

Yeah wrestling isn’t full contract but I did specify it’s at least more taxing on the things that are usually the culprit for when a fighter’s mma ability starts to take a sharp decline such as joints and knees. I thought you’d be smart enough to connect these dots but I was wrong.

How often do you hear that so is so is retiring cause “too much head trauma?” Almost never… it is nearly always from something that straight wrestling would be far more taxing on than mma such as knee injuries. How often have we seen a well rounded fighter who shot takedowns become 1 dimensional head hunter strikers because their knees are so shot from wrestling since junior high… yet they are still able to continue mma but not wrestling because the latter is where the majority of where their wear n tear came from

 

[The Last King]

Yeah wrestling isn’t full contract but I did specify it’s at least more taxing on the things that are usually the culprit for when a fighter’s mma ability starts to take a sharp decline such as joints and knees. I thought you’d be smart enough to connect these dots but I was wrong.

How often do you hear that so is so is retiring cause “too much head trauma?” Almost never… it is nearly always from something that straight wrestling would be far more taxing on than mma such as knee injuries. How often have we seen a well rounded fighter who shot takedowns become 1 dimensional head hunter strikers because their knees are so shot from wrestling since junior high… yet they are still able to continue mma but not wrestling

Mental gymnastics at best. Funny how you start the clock for Randy and DC from the time they started wrestling but don't give Fedor the same courtesy.

Fedor had been training Judo since he was 10 and was on the Russian National Judo team and was competing in FULL CONTACT, amateur combat sambo since he was 18 until he went pro at 22-23 where had over 50 full contact fights.

If anything Fedor had just as much "grappling mileage" as Randy and DC + 5 years of full contact combat sambo where he took blows to the head before he even fought as a professional. Then after that he became pro and had 30 pro fights over the span of 10 years before he finally lost.

By your logic Fedor had twice as much mileage as Randy and DC by the time he was 33.

 

[snugglecakes]

Mental gymnastics at best. Funny how you start the clock for Randy and DC from the time they started wrestling but don't give Fedor the same courtesy.

Fedor had been training Judo since he was 10 and was on the Russian National Judo team and was competing in FULL CONTACT, amateur combat sambo since he was 18 until he went pro at 22-23 where had over 50 full contact fights.

If anything Fedor had just as much "grappling mileage" as Randy and DC + 5 years of full contact combat sambo where he took blows to the head before he even fought as a professional. Then after that he became pro and had 30 pro fights over the span of 10 years before he finally lost.

By your logic Fedor had twice as much mileage as Randy and DC by the time he was 33.

I do give fedor some of the same courtesy but not as much. Upper body base judo throws don’t wreck yur legs as hardcore as shooting double legs. Nice job just completely ignoring the mention of Randy’s boxing fights before mma tho.

Let’s call it square and say dc randy and fedor all started the clock at age 10. A few years headstart from being punched in the face for fedor should not mean the difference of being not top 10 material by 33 while randy and dc were either champ or champ contender by the same age.

The only real explanation is fedor was fighting overrated opponents or even straight up cans while dc was trading wins and losses with stipe at an even older age. Fedor beats randy tho but it would be a size advantage factored in win just like fedors cro cop win (which was considered his best win at the time)

 

[The Last King]

I do give fedor some of the same courtesy but not as much. Upper body base judo throws don’t wreck yur legs as hardcore as shooting double legs. Nice job just completely ignoring the mention of Randy’s boxing fights before mma tho.

Let’s call it square and say dc randy and fedor all started the clock at age 10. A few years headstart from being punched in the face for fedor should not mean the difference of being not top 10 material by 33 while randy and dc were either champ or champ contender by the same age.

The only real explanation is fedor was fighting overrated opponents or even straight up cans while dc was trading wins and losses with stipe at an even older age. Fedor beats randy tho but it would be a weight bully win just like fedors cro cop win (which was considered his best win at the time)

Lol @ "not as much" ..sounds honest

I'm curious which measuring tool did you use to determine that wrestling is more injury prone than Judo? Almost everyone I have ever trained BJJ with who came from high level judo background have had reconstructive knee surgeries, shoulder surgeries and lingering back injuries. Perhaps you're just out of ideas and needed a crutch..

Not sure what you're trying to get at? That Fedor who has been training judo since age 10, been in combat sambo since he was 18-23, and had 30+ professional MMA fights by the age of 33 had the same mileage at age 40 as Randy and DC who went pro in their 30s? Lol

Fedor fought Arona, Babalu, Herring, Schilt and world champion Big Nog in his first 15 fights.

After becoming world champion he won his next consecutive 18 fights and beat prime Big Nog, prime Mirko, Prime AA, Hunt, Sylvia, Coleman 2x (who was coming off win over Shogun), Randleman (who was coming off win over Mirko) , Rogers (who was coming off KO win over AA) and Lindland (who was coming off split decision with peak Rampage) in that span. None of these guys were cans.

You can criticize Fedor for being active which is silly in my opinion but sure take it away. Fedor fought 23 fights from 2000-2004. He beat the 19-1 world champion Nog in 2003 and fought 5x that year. He beat Goodridge and Fujita that year just 8 weeks apart from eachother. If Ngannou beat a top contender and fought 4x that same year and twice against "cans" no one would care or criticize him.

You can say Fedor was crushing "cans" but i don't see why that's a bad thing if he was fighting 5-6x per year. You can break your hands, your legs or tear an ACL just easily against a can as you can against a top fighter or just slip up and have a bad day and get Matt Serra'd. Active, full contact fighting creates mileage. Ngannou lost to Derrick Lewis.

In any case you haven't made a good argument for DC and Randy having more mileage than Fedor. If anything you just proved Fedor had twice as much mileage as them- unless you want to suggest DCs and Randys 40 years old had more mileage than Fedors 40 years old which we know just isn't true.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I made it quite clear that Randy’s career span across wrestling and boxing. This clock starts at your very first wrestling match during the youth. Let’s say Randy’s first match was like 13 right… so he already had 20 years of wear n tear when he started mma. He boxed for the army before mma too. Back to wrestling tho…. Straight wrestling might even be more taxing on the body than mma… at least to knees joints etc.. yuh know .. that things that usually get blamed when a fighter starts falling off.

the same deal with DC. The clock starts from his very first wrestling match when his age had a 1 in the tens place.

so yeah yur off by as much as 20 years from when they started n fedor was in pride so he was likely juicing too. He’d be dumb not to. It was legal allowed and encouraged there

The level of wear your getting wrestling at high school is not going to be the same as what you are getting as a world class professional MMA fighter, the intensity of training for the latter will be vastly higher.

Really though there is never going to be a set pattern to a sports persons peak, the reality is people age differently, injuries happen differently, the way people play their sport depends more or less on physical ability or simply motivation declines differently.

What it needed is an honest eye for a sports persons performances and the reality is the kind of people posting in this thread are incapable of that, too long spent huffing Dana White's farts has rotted their minds, honestly doesnt enter into what they post just trolling to back up their point.

 

[snugglecakes]

Lol @ "not as much" ..sounds honest

I'm curious which measuring tool did you use to determine that wrestling is more injury prone than Judo? Almost everyone I have ever trained BJJ with who came from high level judo background have had reconstructive knee surgeries, shoulder surgeries and lingering back injuries. Perhaps you're just out of ideas and needed a crutch..

Not sure what you're trying to get at? That Fedor who has been training judo since age 10, been in combat sambo since he was 18-23, and had 30+ professional MMA fights by the age of 33 had the same mileage at age 40 as Randy and DC who went pro in their 30s? Lol

Fedor fought Arona, Babalu, Herring, Schilt and world champion Big Nog in his first 15 fights.

After becoming world champion he won his next consecutive 18 fights and beat prime Big Nog, prime Mirko, Prime AA, Hunt, Sylvia, Coleman 2x (who was coming off win over Shogun), Randleman (who was coming off win over Mirko) , Rogers (who was coming off KO win over AA) and Lindland (who was coming off split decision with peak Rampage) in that span. None of these guys were cans.

You can criticize Fedor for being active which is silly in my opinion but sure take it away. Fedor fought 23 fights from 2000-2004. He beat the 19-1 world champion Nog in 2003 and fought 5x that year. He beat Goodridge and Fujita that year just 8 weeks apart from eachother. If Ngannou beat a top contender and fought 4x that same year and twice against "cans" no one would care or criticize him.

You can say Fedor was crushing "cans" but i don't see why that's a bad thing if he was fighting 5-6x per year. You can break your hands, your legs or tear an ACL just easily against a can as you can against a top fighter or just slip up and have a bad day and get Matt Serra'd. Active, full contact fighting creates mileage. Ngannou lost to Derrick Lewis.

In any case you haven't made a good argument for DC and Randy having more mileage than Fedor. If anything you just proved Fedor had twice as much mileage as them- unless you want to suggest DCs and Randys 40 years old had more mileage than Fedors 40 years old which we know just isn't true.

the measuring tool of many examples such as Honda being able to still get upper body based judo takedowns while not being able to shoot a double to save her life which is sufficient evidence that with a worn down body you are still able to do 1 but not the other since 1 is more taxing than the other

now keep on listing fedors wins against mostly people who are blown up from lower weight classes.

lol at yur statement of being just as likely to get injured vs a can than vs the elite.

Every talking point that blows yur position out of the water you just say “oh… Forman is an anomaly” or “mental gymnastics.” In other words you’re admitting you have no rebuttal. All you can do is keep on listing fedors quantity over quality wins

 

[The Last King]

the measuring tool of many examples such as Honda being able to still get upper body based judo takedowns while not being able to shoot a double to save her life which is sufficient evidence that with a worn down body you are still able to do 1 but not the other since 1 is more taxing than the other

now keep on listing fedors wins against mostly people who are blown up from lower weight classes.

lol at yur statement of being just as likely to get injured vs a can than vs the elite.

Every talking point that blows yur position out of the water you just say “oh… Forman is an anomaly” or “mental gymnastics.” In other words you’re admitting you have no rebuttal

So your measuring tool to determine that wrestling is a more injury prone sport than Judo is....


RONDA ROUSEY


Lmaaooo sounds legit. I can throw my purple belt in BJJ and nearly 15 years of grappling experience with wrestlers, BJJers and Judokas in the toilet now that the Ronda Rousey measuring tool has emerged as the way to determine which sport is more injury prone. Smh.


I think you're just going out of your way to discredit Fedor but what do I know...

 

[MartinGibson86]

Fedor had 30 fights 10 years into his career plus a sambo career. Glover had 20 fights ten years into his career and competed in BJJ but that's not full contact like sambo

I'd say it's easier for Glover to maintain longevity

Fedor's first 12 fights or so werent full contact.


Still fighting....washed 12 years ago...weird

 

[The Last King]

Fedor's first 12 fights or so werent full contact.


Still fighting....washed 12 years ago...weird

1. Yes they were you dishonest clown lol. Kick boxing doenst have GnP to head of a grounded oppoent but it's still full contact. The strikes and takedowns in Fedors early fights were full contact. That's full contact.

2. Fedor wasn't washed 12 years ago, he was past his prime 12 years ago. He became champion in 2003 and lost in 2011. Show me one fighter who is still peaking 8 years after becoming the champion. You can't. Fedor kept fighting for 12 years because he makes over a million per fight. It's called a job.

You're so desperate to discredit Fedor that you resort to lying lol pathetic.

 

[snugglecakes]

You're so desperate to to discredit Fedor that you resort to lying lol pathetic.

You call other people liar yet you said you’re just as likely to get injured vs a can than you are vs the elite of the elite. You know damn well that statement was lying through your teeth

We’re not desperate to discredit fedor. We are just honest fans who can put 2 and 2 together that fedor was weight bullying blown up middleweights and then got plooked when he fought under zuffa without a ref wearing an ear piece.

I am a fedor fan but did you get the memo that you can be a fan without thinking they were the best there is was and ever will be? Then there’s the deranged delusional fan like you that thinks people who don’t think fedor was number 1 ever think that he was a jobber. Did you consider that maybe sometimes people fall somewhere between the best and a can… such as really good but not the best? Fedor is probably all time top 7-10ish but certainly not number 1

 

[MartinGibson86]

1. Yes they were you dishonest rat lol. Kick boxing doenst have GnP to head of a grounded oppoent but it's still full contact. The strikes and takedowns in Fedors early fights were full contact. That's full contact.

2. Fedor wasn't washed 12 years ago, he was past his prime 12 years ago. He became champion in 2003 and lost in 2011. Show me one fighter who is still peaking 8 years after becoming the champion. You can't. Fedor kept fighting for 12 years because he makes over a million per fight. It's called a job.

You're so desperate to discredit Fedor that you resort to lying lol pathetic.

How did I lie? No GnP to the head???



Arona may have Bigfooted him otherwise (stiil got robbed).

 

[The Last King]

You call other people liar yet you said you’re just as likely to get injured vs a can than you are vs the elite of the elite. You know damn well that statement was lying through your teeth.

We’re not desperate to discredit fedor. We are just honest fans who can put 2 and 2 together that fedor was weight bullying blown up middleweights and then got plooked when he fought under zuffa without a ref wearing an ear piece.

I am a fedor fan but did you get the memo that you can be a fan without thinking they were the best there is was and ever will be? Then there’s the deranged delusional fan like you that thinks people who don’t think fedor was number 1 ever think that he was a jobber. Did you consider that maybe sometimes people fall somewhere between the best and a can… such as really good but not the best? Fedor is probably all time top 7-10ish but certainly not number 1

You can tear your ACL going for a takedown on a can just as easily as you could going for a takedown on a top guy.

What happened to Aspinalls knee against Blaydes could have easily happened against a can. The more you fight the greater the risk is of this happening. This is why I don't criticize active fighters.

The same way you can break your hands punching a can in the head just as easily as you would punching a top guy in the head.

How am I liar lol? What about this untrue?

This is why I don't criticize a fighter who beats a top guy and crushes 2 cans that same year. I'd rather have that than to wait a whole year to see them fight again.

 

[The Last King]

How did I lie? No GnP to the head???



Arona may have Bigfooted him otherwise (stiil got robbed).

So are muay thai and kick boxing fights not full contact since there's no GnP to the head?

Silly little boy lol

 

[MartinGibson86]

You can tear your ACL going for a takedown on a can just as easily as you could going for a takedown on a top guy.

What happened to Aspinalls knee against Blaydes could have easily happened against a can. The more you fight the greater the risk is of this happening. This is why I don't criticize active fighters.

The same way you can break your hands punching a can in the head just as easily as you would punching a top guy in the head.

How am I liar lol? What about this untrue?

This is why I don't criticize a fighter who beats a top guy and crushes 2 cans that same year. I'd rather have that than to wait a whole year to see them fight again.

Wow...I guess Fedor really should get credit for facing winless Nagata while Pride champ lol


Coulda got injured

 

[The Last King]

Wow...I guess Fedor really should get credit for facing winless Nagata while Pride champ lol


Coulda got injured

Nagata was Fedors 5th fight that year. The same year he beat Big Nog for the HW championship and beat Fujita and Goodridge within 8 weeks of eachother. No one is giving Fedor extra credit for beating Nagata you fool, I'm saying that it's not something he should be criticized for. It was his 5th fight that year man. Jesus. Imagine hating a fighter this much you criticize them for being ACTIVE. SMH.

 

[Fioretti]

1. Yes they were you dishonest rat lol. Kick boxing doenst have GnP to head of a grounded oppoent but it's still full contact. The strikes and takedowns in Fedors early fights were full contact. That's full contact.

2. Fedor wasn't washed 12 years ago, he was past his prime 12 years ago. He became champion in 2003 and lost in 2011. Show me one fighter who is still peaking 8 years after becoming the champion. You can't. Fedor kept fighting for 12 years because he makes over a million per fight. It's called a job.

You're so desperate to discredit Fedor that you resort to lying lol pathetic.

I gave you two fighters about a week ago, girl. Ignoring that as you ignore everything else that shatters your fantasies? Lol