Fedor strengths and weaknesses and his skillset in the UFC today (Long Thread)

[Fioretti]

The median age for setting a world record in olympics is 26.1, younger than when you claim athletic prime starts.

Peak performance for gymnastics is typically around 20-21. Are they in their prime?

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

Peak performance for gymnastics is typically around 20-21. Are they in their prime?

In that particular sport yes.

 

[Pierced7681]

You hear a lot of talk about "evolution" which has merit to a degree, but the reality is that it's significance is over exaggerated. Fedor had a more well rounded and comprehensive skillset in 2005 than any HW in the UFC has today. He was arguably more skilled than any fighter in the UFC today.

Fedor was the fastest HW that theres ever been. Big Nog said he was the fastest fighter hes ever fought. Chael Sonnen said he was blown away by how fast, old, Bellator Fedor still was. Yuji Shimada the legendary Pride FC ref whos refereed hundreds of fights said Fedor was not only the fastest HW hes ever seen but the fastest fighter hes ever seen. He said he noticed Fedor's speed the most during his transitions from striking to grappling. He said watching Fedor transition from throwing strikes to ragdolling his opponents was like watching an, "Animal. "Wow." -Yuji Shimada

On top of being the fastest HW ever, Fedor was the most well rounded HW ever and had the most dynamic and comprehensive skillset this sport has ever seen at HW and maybe even across all weight classes, depending on who you ask.

A grappler but would spar competitively with world class, hard hitting, pro boxers like Lebedev and land a lightning fast right cross on them like a pro boxer would. Nobody in the HW division today has a cross this good and this fast and this was old Strikeforce Fedor. Not only was he technical, but he understood distance and timing and he could also hit the brawl button at any time if he needed to and brawl with ANYONE. This is rare because most fighters usually can only do one or the other.



Fedor had world class Sambo and Judo skills and was on the Russian national Judo team. He had no problem with ragdolling a 250lb man. He took down prime Mirko almost easily with finesse while Olympic level, powerful wrestlers like Coleman and Randleman couldnt. Fedor had a lifetime of knowledge in throws and takedowns and even in his later years was pulling off shit like this:



You won't see any HWs in the UFC today pulling off anything like this. It requires years and years of training, experience and expertise in grappling and again, this was old, Strikeforce Fedor.

Fedor had the best and most fierce ground and pound this sport has ever seen. I could post gifs of him bouncing prime Nogs head off the mat like a basketball but what he did to Herring is still slept on in terms of speed and ferocity. Just listen to the sound of these GnP shots.



Besides the striking, grappling and brutal GnP, Fedor had slick submissions and could armlock his opponents from his back with the hip-speed of a break dancer like he did to Coleman. Coleman has spent lots of time on the mat with high level grapplers. Not even Big Nog subbed him with such swiftness. Even a Renzo Gracie black belt in BJJ like Stephan Bonnar never came close to submitting 50 year old Coleman. Even Shogun who is a Cristiano Marcelo black belt in BJJ and who has spent multiple camps training with Demian Maia never came close to submitting old Coleman. It shows how swift Fedors armlocks were and how ahead of his time he was by pulling off such slick subs back in 2004.



Besides the skills, Fedor had absurd reflexes. He checked Mirkos fastest and hardest low kick with no feel out process in the opening moments of their fight like it was nothing. You don't see those kind of checking reflexes in MMA, you see it in professional kickboxing and professional Muay Thai.

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It's wild to think that a grappling based fighter like Fedor had enough skill, ferocity and durability in the stand up department to trade with prime Cop for extended periods of time and even get the better of him and actually walk him down and make him run away. This was truly unprecedented even by today's standards. Cro Cop was a lot higher level than someone like Gane and would completely embarrass the likes of Derrick Lewis and Tuivasa. Guys who are considered the top strikers in the UFC HW division.

View attachment 955523

You can't forget Fedors toughness and durability that came with all that skill and athleticism. He got thrown through the air and slammed on his neck by Randleman and recovered moments later and submitted him. Most people would die if this happened to them. Truly remarkable toughness and durability.

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All in all when you combine the skill, the speed, the toughness, the endurance, the intensity, the durability and his well roundedness there is no doubt that there has never been anyone close to him and there probably never will be. Easily the greatest and most well rounded HW fighter ever and one of the best fighters to ever live. More skilled than any UFC HW today even with all the so called "evolution"


When it comes to weaknesses, Fedor could be reckless at times which made his fights exciting. He didnt play it safe and often took risks and this reckless approach has cost him.

His grappling off his back wasn't as good as his other skills. He could still pull off amazing armlocks and explosive sweeps from bottom and he had great scrambling ability, but his top game was much better than his bottom game. For example against Arona he resorted to hold on to Aronas head to stall while Arona was on top of him in mount and half guard position. Fedor was strong enough to pull this off and get away with it but generally, this was low skilled technique.

Another weakness I saw in him was his tendency to get a little bit lazy when it came to giving up underhooks which resulted in him giving up his back and him being put into dangerous situations. This was by far his biggest weakness and it resulted in him being KOd by Hendo and him getting slammed on his neck by Randleman. Below is an example of this tendency in a grappling session with Gegard Mousasi.



Sometimes he got away with it and other times he didnt, especially as he got older. Overall Fedor is still the fastest, most skilled, most well rounded and mentally toughest HW fighter I've ever seen with the best reflexes.

The fact that he had such an advanced and comprehensive skillset 17 years ago speaks volumes of how good he was and how ahead of his time he was. The #1 P4P fighter in the world for 7 consecutive years. There are few fighters in the UFC who are more skilled if any. Maybe prime GSP. Maybe prime Anderson. Maybe prime Aldo but I think Fedor was more skilled than all of them with all considered.

Vadim Nemkov is the best LHW in the world. He's beaten the likes of Phil Davis 2x, Ryan Bader and Corey Anderson who would all be top 5 in the UFC today, using Fedors 2005 skillset. That says a lot about how complete this skillset is and how these talks of "evolution" are extremely exaggerated as a marketing gimmick to make casuals feel like the product they're consuming is superior to anything else they may have missed in the past and thus it's created a very toxic, what have you don't for me lately fanbase.

Who is this Fedor you write about? You mean Blagoy son?

 

[Sweater of AV]

Peak performance for gymnastics is typically around 20-21. Are they in their prime?

Of course they are. There’s no absolute concept of physical prime. It depends on various things, especially the nature of the activity.

We already went over this in that thread where I embarrassed you. It’s humorous you’re still struggling like a child though. Grow up kiddo, you’ve got a lot to learn.

 

[Area809]

What are you talking about? Mirko lost multiple times in Pride. He lost multiple times in the UFC too. At his best he was still absolutely an elite fighter and the most dangerous striker in the sport. To assume he started losing in the UFC in 2007 because he was taking less steroids is the perspective of an autist. Steroid use wasn't regulated in MMA at that time in the UFC or in Japan. That's how you had guys like Brock and Carwin piss clean. To suggest Mirko was taking less steroids in that era just because he was in the UFC is ridiculous.

PED use was definitely regulated in the UFC at that time. Maybe not with the USADA magnifying glass, but definitely regulated.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

I'm loving this honestly. The utterly deranged beliefs in this thread are a joy to read. People truly believing that peak HW MMA performance was achieved only during a 5 year stretch by a doughy 230 pounder in the infancy of the sport. Never to be duplicated. The undisputed fastest HW who ever lived, who couldn't even outrun father time at the age of 30.

Current champ Ngannou is basically a less technical Rumble Johnson with worse cardio, and the #2 ranked guy is a kickboxer who'd get put on his back by anybody with average grappling ability.

The only time Francis faced an elite fighter was the first time he fought Stipe, and was unable to get the KO because Stipe wasn't a washed big name with a shot chin like the majority of Ngannou's resume.

Fedor, Cain and DC were all "doughy" 230-240lb guys, who at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any HW today. Jones and DC at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any LHW today. Let's face it, Ngannou only has a punchers chance for 2 rounds against these guys before his cardio/speed/power fade away.

 

[ServantofGOD]

You are actually making my point stronger. Fedor is often considered by most experts and figthers to be the GOAT. You are constantly going on about these new huge HWs would just dominate guys like Fedor.

If you are saying he's only 233 that makes it even more obvious that size doesn't matter as much as speed and skill. The kings of HW have always been 240ish give or take a few.

I honestly think you should just go watch some of his fights or a 30 minute highlight of him. His speed and power and skill is amazing.

I do not deny Fedor as the best HW in overall skill and execution. And his small size makes him more impressive

But 233lbs at 5"11 flabby vs 245lbs at 6"4 and jacked is a big difference. This highlights Fedors greatness but also means big, skilled, athletic man pose a danger to him like Ngannou

 

[TheNinja]

I do not deny Fedor as the best HW in overall skill and execution. And his small size makes him more impressive

But 233lbs at 5"11 flabby vs 245lbs at 6"4 and jacked is a big difference. This highlights Fedors greatness but also means big, skilled, athletic man pose a danger to him like Ngannou

Ahhh, gotcha. And I don't deny that weight can make a massive different as well. Yes, Fedor is a mere mortal and again, I'm not one of those guys saying Fedor easily beats Francis or Lewis. But I personally would favor prime Fedor over any HW ever. I think his skill difference from such a young age and spending his entire life in combat sports is the difference.

Fedor hung in there for a round vs Bigfoot but man....285+ pounds of TRT loaded beast was too much weight difference for Fedor (who was like 235 that fight) to get out from underneath. He stood with him just fine though for the most part.

 

[GOATtalks]

Current champ Ngannou is basically a less technical Rumble Johnson with worse cardio, and the #2 ranked guy is a kickboxer who'd get put on his back by anybody with average grappling ability.

The only time Francis faced an elite fighter was the first time he fought Stipe, and was unable to get the KO because Stipe wasn't a washed big name with a shot chin like the majority of Ngannou's resume.

Fedor, Cain and DC were all "doughy" 230-240lb guys, who at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any HW today. Jones and DC at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any LHW today. Let's face it, Ngannou only has a punchers chance for 2 rounds against these guys before his cardio/speed/power fade away.

Another moronic take. Rumble fought as low as 170, he’s a manlet next to Ngannou. He isn’t really more technical than Ngannou either.

Ngannou beat Stipe in the rematch because he improved leaps and bounds, not because Stipe suddenly got washed. It was evident from Ngannou’s pacing, shot selection and his greatly improved offensive and defensive wrestling.

Ngannou beats new generation guys in their prime with the same was he beats legends. Blaydes x2, Gane and Rozenstruick all suffered the same fate as the rest.

DC would be a tough fight for Ngannou. His boxing is good enough to close the distance and he had elite wrestling skills to take Ngannou down and a real chance of finishing him on the ground.

Cain was reckless when closing the distance, prime Cain would get clipped just like he did when Ngannou actually beat him.

There’s a good chance that Fedor would be dumb enough to brawl with Ngannou. That’s an express ticket to shadow realm right there. Fedor’s grappling is greatly overrated as well. He struggled with guys like Hunt and CroCop ffs. He ain’t doing shit to Ngannou with his primitive trips and armbars, MMA has moved on.

 

[horc00]

Strength:
being absolutely fearless and taking on his opponents at their game.

Weakness:
being absolutely fearless and taking on his opponents at their game.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

Another moronic take. Rumble fought as low as 170, he’s a manlet next to Ngannou.

p4p, genius

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Strength:
being absolutely fearless and taking on his opponents at their game.

Weakness:
being absolutely fearless and taking on his opponents at their game.

Jones falls into that category as well lol.

 

[HHJ]

Jones falls into that category as well lol.

No,the weaknesses is a mile long for Jones.

 

[HHJ]

Also Fedor is the Western Stary Oskol Chess Champion and Accordion playing Champion for at least 17 yrs in a row.

 

[GOATtalks]

p4p, genius

That’s an another moronic concept. If Ngannou fought the way he fights at FLW and was 5’4 he definitely wouldn’t be a UFC champ. If DJ fought the way he fights now, but was 6’5 and weighed 265 pounds he would’ve been the greatest fighter of all times. But that’s not how it works. Smaller fighters are faster and more technical, while HW’s are slower and more powerful. That’s physics. This is the reason why Ngannou could beat all of the FLW division in one night.

Fedor was faster than Ngannou and had better submissions, but he was very significantly smaller. He was a natural MW in a bad shape. It was very evident when Big Foot beat him to pulp. Ngannou would’ve KO Fedor and it wouldn’t be pretty

 

[tramendous]

So many new fans don't realize this. Werdum's prime was like 33 to 36 and that was not his physical prime he just got way better at striking and improved his fight IQ so it more than made up for not being as fast/strong as he was in his mid to late 20s.

Ya and its funny because early 30s is considered prime years in mma when in sports like muay thai where many start in training in their teens, theyre best years are behind them at 30. Because by then theyve had 100s of fights.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

That’s an another moronic concept. If Ngannou fought the way he fights at FLW and was 5’4 he definitely wouldn’t be a UDC champ. If DJ fought the way he fights now, but was 6’5 and weighed 265 pounds he would’ve been the greatest fighter of all times. But that’s not how it works. Smaller fighters are faster and more technical, while HW’s are slower and more powerful. That’s physics. This is the reason why Ngannou could beat all of the FLW division in one night.

Fedor was faster than Ngannou and had better submissions, but he was very significantly smaller. He was a natural MW in a bad shape. It was very evident when Big Foot beat him to pulp. Ngannou would’ve KO Fedor and it wouldn’t be pretty

Holy fuck

 

[Midget Boxer]

Holy fuck

Holy fuck yeah!!!!

 

[Midget Boxer]

Current champ Ngannou is basically a less technical Rumble Johnson with worse cardio, and the #2 ranked guy is a kickboxer who'd get put on his back by anybody with average grappling ability.

The only time Francis faced an elite fighter was the first time he fought Stipe, and was unable to get the KO because Stipe wasn't a washed big name with a shot chin like the majority of Ngannou's resume.

Fedor, Cain and DC were all "doughy" 230-240lb guys, who at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any HW today. Jones and DC at their peaks were superior fighters with superior skillsets than any LHW today. Let's face it, Ngannou only has a punchers chance for 2 rounds against these guys before his cardio/speed/power fade away.

Fedor, DC and Cain get KOd by ngannou

I'd like to see them try to get takedowns before getting decapitated in 2 minutes

 

[Talibankocken]

Peak performance for gymnastics is typically around 20-21. Are they in their prime?

Yes, that's what the word means. If they weren't gymnasts, their prime would most likely come later due to the wear and tear that gymnastics put on your body. The timing of your physical prime is completely dependant on what you do with and to your body. If you start doing meth at 18, you probably won't peak any higher after that, making 18 your prime year.

For the average Joe though, It's probably somewhere around 30-35, when the "old man strength" starts to kick in but you're still relatively youthful in your body.