Fedor strengths and weaknesses and his skillset in the UFC today (Long Thread)

[TJ177]

Why do you call them a bunch of Japanese pro wrestlers???? Yamamoto had 75 MMA fights when he fought Mirko. Kanehara was 22-12-1. Ron Waterman was 10-1-2. These are not CM Punks like you see in UFC in 2016. Randleman, Aleks and Barnett were great fighters. Only opponent you can criticize that year was Oyama, who Mirko KO'ed in 1 minute and then promptly fought Aleks only a few weeks later.

I'm calling them Japanese pro wrestlers because they were... pro wrestlers from Japan? I don't know what CM Punk has to do with this, but Kanehara was even smaller than Punk.

Set aside Crocrop for a second - if Kanehara or Yamamoto fought in today's UFC HW division they would be in serious risk of losing their life.

 

[ServantofGOD]

And then he popped for PEDs and it suddenly made sense why he looked so good at age 36-37. He improved his striking a ton under Cordeiro as well, don’t get me wrong. But there sure was a world of difference when he returned after USADA suspension.

I don’t consider myself a hater although it’s true that I’m not really an Ngannou fan. I like Ciryl Gane more, but have no problem saying that his resume is even thinner than Ngannou’s.

I think Francis is the most powerful puncher we’ve ever seen, he’s big, strong and athletic, and he’s clearly been working on his wrestling (with almost 10 years in the fight game, it may be too late to expect massive improvements). I do think his wrestling is overrated, or at least that the jury is still out on how good it really is. I find his striking rather sloppy.

Unfortunately for him, he came up at a time when the HW division was awful. The old guard were—well, old—and there weren’t many good prospects on the horizon. It’s improving now. Gane was the first bright spot, then Aspinall, and now there’s Pavlovich. I hoped Romanov would be good too, but losing to Tybura isn’t a good sign. If I rank the best HWs of all time, I do it based on resume and accomplishments and I just don’t think Ngannou’s is all that great. Stipe’s resume has some of the same problems but he has enough good wins plus his number of title defenses that keep him ranked highly. I do often wonder if I rank him too highly and JDS a bit too low though.

I’m well aware that Fedor can lose. I would favor the 2003-2005 version of Fedor over any HW we’ve seen, but prime Stipe, Francis, JDS, Cain, DC, and Overeem could certainly beat him potentially.

Romanov should move to LHW. It is possible though he could get better at dealing with HWs. Fedor arguably should of lost to Arona who is a career LHW. So yeah. Romanov is not a heavy or big HW anymore he lost all his fat and is 238lbs now and is still a tad chubby. If he cut the fat he would surely be 225lb or 230lbs and could make LHW. Alternatively he could stay his current size or shed fat and gain muscle and be a stout solid 235lb to 240lb HW. Though personally I do not think he will do well at HW compared to LHW. At LHW there is a grappling deficit which could play to his advantage.


Well regarsing Fedor I cannot change your mind. You are a Fedoe superfan so yeah I think he was great but in my opinion prime Fedor always losses to Prime Stipe, Ngannou, Werdum and 50/50 with Ubereem due to Ubereerms weak chin, and poor fight IQ. I see Fedor always beating Lesnar, Couture, Mir, DC, Lewis types but a Carwin or JDS have punchers chance and would not be easy to takedown. I also see Fedor beating Cain. To me styles make fights and JDS is actuslly a harder fight for Fedor than Cain despite the fact Cain avenged his loss to JDS with 2 dominant performances. I feel Cain pulled that off due to the wrestling threat of advantage and takedown based off Cains style and cardio pace where as Fedor is more clinch based takedowns and is still smaller than Cain and less heavy so Fedor would not present the same challenge to JDS in the clinch department from a strength and mass perspective. However what makes Fedoe more dangerous to JDS than Cain is Fedors precision and KO power, Cain is more of a volume striker with more precision compared to Fedor. Also the best of Fedors highlight reels seem to come when he counter standing or has an opponent on the floor.

 

[Reffson]

The Pride era felt special. I miss it, and I have no doubt Fedor would among the top five today. Besides potentially getting clipped, I can see him zuluing Ngannou and Gane. I'm thinking it must be age along with a myriad of injuries that stopped him from mixing up striking and grappling a whole lot more. We'll never know, but he remains the GOAT at heavyweight.

Gane's talented but when he had his chance, he held back IMO. Prime Fedor didn't hold back. He was a killer. Khabib level grappling with almost Tyson like hands, plus the Judo/Sambo throws, which are lethal also because they sap the strength of the opponent.

 

[Reffson]

Fedor was finished 3 times in a row and two of those losses were schoolboy errors (getting caught in a triangle and reversed by Hendo), nothing to do with prime. He never tested himself in the UFC where drug testing was stricter and his record fighting in the US is mediocre

GSP said Fedor was the best so your juvenile post sucks.

 

[kenetics]

Prime Fedor is impossible to defeat.

This. The closest HW that resembles Fedor would be prime DC. Which would be HW DC in strike force.

 

[Fioretti]

I think Oyama was the only "can" that year. Mirko KO'ed him in a minute and then fought Aleksandr Emelianenko less than 4 weeks later.

Kanehara and Yamamoto were definitely cans, my bro.

 

[Midget Boxer]

JDS beat Derrick Lewis in 2019. His losses were Gane, Blaydes, Reem, Stipe, and Francis.

Cain had multiple, documented MAJOR surgeries which forced 5 years of inactivity.

His mma losses are Francis, Werdum, and JDS

Weird that Fedor fought 12 more years after the horrible wear and tear.

JDS was 35 when he started his current losing streak. He was consistently top 10 until he was 37 or so. Cain lost to Ngannou when he was 37, and was also top 10 until then.

Both of them had losses before then, of course, but losing a fight or two doesn't mean they're out of their prime. It doesn't equate to "decline". It means they lost a fight. You can lose a fight between the ages of 28-35, when you're in your physical prime.

Physical declines due to age typically start around 36-37 in 90%+ of male athletes.

JDS had a sharp drop off in skills after the Cain injury. He was in his early 30s I think

Cain got riddled with knee injuries.

Age doesn't matter, injuries can happen anytime or fighters change their style. For Fedor, I'd say his skills declined just like JDSA did

 

[TheNinja]

Mikro is 225lbs... With poor grappling.



Gane is 247lbs much taller and jacked with a far longer reach and leg length than Cro Cop

Ngannou is also much taller, just as fast and 270lbs and very hard to takedown. Ngannou had KOd every top fighter he faced basically. Somehow the "brawler" keeps KTFO of more technical strikers like Rozenstruck, JDS, Arlovski, Overeem, etc etc

Blaydes is 260lbs a top level wrestler, good BJJ and hits hard

Ubereem was 270lbs jacked, on horse meat and a K1 Grand Prix champ with elite takedown defense so strong that not even Werdum, Big Foot or Lesnar could take him down. Ubereem tossed 290lb Rodgers to the ground and manhandled Lesnar in the clinch

Prime Werdum 245lbs, 6"4 and already beat Fedor but became an even better striker with improved BJJ submitting Big Nog.

Aspinall is 6"5 Boxer with BJJ black belt and 255lbs and KO power

Pavlovich is a sambo wrestling background and 255lbs jacked with 84 inch reach and 6"3


You think Fedor wins all these fights? With no chance of losing?

I never said he wins them all with ease. I have always said I'd favor Fedor in his prime vs any HW ever. But sure, he could lose for sure. I always hear people claim the exact opposite "Fedor would get destroyed by ______ ". That isn't right to say either. You cannot say with certainty that Fedor couldn't be Francis.

Yes, weight matters, but who are considered the greatest HWs of all time? Fedor, DC, Stipe, Werdum, Cain, Minotauro, some say Randy, maybe now Francis? What do they all have in common except Francis? They were under 240 pounds

So this whole idea that 260+ pound beasts would rule HW is just false based on actual fact not speculation. It's proven speed and skill (not weight) dominate HWs.

 

[Fioretti]

JDS had a sharp drop off in skills after the Cain injury. He was in his early 30s I think

Cain got riddled with knee injuries.

Age doesn't matter, injuries can happen anytime or fighters change their style. For Fedor, I'd say his skills declined just like JDSA did

Injuries don't take you out of your physical prime. Physical prime is literally an age range. A hindered performance due to injury is not the same as a decline in skills due to aging or being out of your prime.

JDS's skills didn't decline after losing to Cain. When you face top competition consistently, especially at HW, you're bound to rack up a loss or two. A loss doesn't mean skills have declined. People can have losses and bad performances in their physical prime. "Out of prime" means a decline in physical ability/capability due to aging. Which is out of their control.

For fuck's sake.

 

[ServantofGOD]

I never said he wins them all with ease. I have always said I'd favor Fedor in his prime vs any HW ever. But sure, he could lose for sure. I always hear people claim the exact opposite "Fedor would get destroyed by ______ ". That isn't right to say either. You cannot say with certainty that Fedor couldn't be Francis.

Yes, weight matters, but who are considered the greatest HWs of all time? Fedor, DC, Stipe, Werdum, Cain, Minotauro, some say Randy, maybe now Francis? Only Francis is above like 240. So this whole idea that 260+ pound beasts would rule HW is just false based on actual fact not speculation. It's proven speed and skill (not weight) dominate HWs.

Ngannou is over 260lbs but guys who could give him issues are 260lb Blaydes, and maybe one day 255lb Aspinall and Pavlovich will prove elite.

Stipe is 245lbs prime

Werdum 245lbs

 

[Midget Boxer]

Injuries don't take you out of your physical prime. Physical prime is literally an age range. A hindered performance due to injury is not the same as a decline in skills due to aging or being out of your prime.

JDS's skills didn't decline after losing to Cain. When you face top competition consistently, especially at HW, you're bound to rack up a loss or two. A loss doesn't mean skills have declined. People can have losses and bad performances in their physical prime. "Out of prime" means a decline in physical ability/capability due to aging. Which is out of their control.

For fuck's sake.

If there's injury after injury then yes, there's a decline in your skill. Look at 21 year old nba mvp Derrick rose who's prime ended at 21. But that's irrelevant to Fedor's case. And yes being injured isn't the same as aging but what's the relevance here?

Physical prime isn't the same as actual talent prime

Really dude? Notice the differences between JDS before and after Cain trilogy. His chin is worse, got slower and fought less. He didn't break his spine but changed his style after tough losses

 

[TheNinja]

Ngannou is over 260lbs but guys who could give him issues are 260lb Blaydes, and maybe one day 255lb Aspinall and Pavlovich will prove elite.

Stipe is 245lbs prime

Werdum 245lbs

Good discussion

Stipe beat Francis giving up like 20 pounds of weight.....or course later brutally lost

My only points here

1. People can't just throw around "Fedor has no shot vs _____ " or "Fedor easily beats everyone". - HW is often a crapshoot
2. Huge HWs aren't in the best HWs of all time other than Francis. So until 260+ pounders prove it, I'll go with the 240s who have proven dominance over the past 20 years - This cannot be refuted unless you can point to a list of huge HWs who dominated. (also Stipe and Werdum were rarely over 240 unless they were carrying more fat but that's picking nits - Nobody would consider either of them to be "big" HWs )

 

[Bend NvR Break]

I think the greatest advantage Fedor had was fighting at his natural everyday eight weight. No weight cuts. No dehydration. Fighting at the weight he trained at.

Weighed 227 pounds after burning 5000 calories. That means he's a HW.

 

[ServantofGOD]

Good discussion

Stipe beat Francis giving up like 20 pounds of weight.....or course later brutally lost

My only points here

1. People can't just throw around "Fedor has no shot vs _____ " or "Fedor easily beats everyone". - HW is often a crapshoot
2. Huge HWs aren't in the best HWs of all time other than Francis. So until 260+ pounders prove it, I'll go with the 240s who have proven dominance over the past 20 years - This cannot be refuted unless you can point to a list of huge HWs who dominated. (also Stipe and Werdum were rarely over 240 unless they were carrying more fat but that's picking nits - Nobody would consider either of them to be "big" HWs )

Fedor is 233lbs and fat at HW. His real lean muscle mass is likely that of a small LHW if he shed the fat he would be 210lbs or 215lbs. Remember when he fought Hendo? He weighed in at 222lbs or 224lbs and still had fat on him. In the grappling he did not appear much stronger than Hendo same when he faced Lindland.

A 245lb Werdum or Stipe are lean relatively speaking and carrying a lot more mass than Fedor. Like 20lbs extra muscle in reality or more.

Well Ngannou is a dominant 265lb champ

Lesnar was for a brief period

Frank Mir as champ
Werdum as champ
Stipe as champ
Jds as champ
Gane as interim were all 245lbs to 247lbs

 

[ServantofGOD]

Good discussion

Stipe beat Francis giving up like 20 pounds of weight.....or course later brutally lost

My only points here

1. People can't just throw around "Fedor has no shot vs _____ " or "Fedor easily beats everyone". - HW is often a crapshoot
2. Huge HWs aren't in the best HWs of all time other than Francis. So until 260+ pounders prove it, I'll go with the 240s who have proven dominance over the past 20 years - This cannot be refuted unless you can point to a list of huge HWs who dominated. (also Stipe and Werdum were rarely over 240 unless they were carrying more fat but that's picking nits - Nobody would consider either of them to be "big" HWs )

Stipe was regularly over 240lbs and way less fat than Fedor. Same with Werdum. The builds are different they are also 4 inches taller than Fedor....

 

[Fioretti]

If there's injury after injury then yes, there's a decline in your skill. Look at 21 year old nba mvp Derrick rose who's prime ended at 21. But that's irrelevant to Fedor's case. And yes being injured isn't the same as aging but what's the relevance here?

Physical prime isn't the same as actual talent prime

Really dude? Notice the differences between JDS before and after Cain trilogy. His chin is worse, got slower and fought less. He didn't break his spine but changed his style after tough losses

Injuries and alterations to style do not equate to out of prime. Again, you're failing to separate "physical prime" with "individual personal best" - which are two entirely different things.

Physical prime is an age thing. Declines in ability, performance, and skill due to aging is someone "out of their prime". Declines in performance due to injury, sickness, brain farts, anxiety, nervousness, having to take a shit, or whatever the fuck else, is someone "not at their best" or someone who had a bad night. It doesn't mean they've aged out of their prime.

Fedro at 33 wasn't out of his prime. He lost because he started consistently facing top competition for the first time in his career. He didn't do as well as he did against lesser competition. This is expected. Is normal. It's also ok.

 

[TheComputerGuy]

GSP said Fedor was the best so your juvenile post sucks.

So did Randy, Rogan, and at 1 time even Dana.

 

[TheComputerGuy]

Injuries and alterations to style do not equate to out of prime. Again, you're failing to separate "physical prime" with "individual personal best" - which are two entirely different things.

Physical prime is an age thing. Declines in ability, performance, and skill due to aging is someone "out of their prime". Declines in performance due to injury, sickness, brain farts, anxiety, nervousness, having to take a shit, or whatever the fuck else, is someone "not at their best" or someone who had a bad night. It doesn't mean they've aged out of their prime.

Fedro at 33 wasn't out of his prime. He lost because he started consistently facing top competition for the first time in his career. He didn't do as well as he did against lesser competition. This is expected. Is normal. It's also ok.

Comments like this just show you are a newbie. Since all the top guys were in Pride.

It is also a stupid thing to say. Prime doesn't have anything to do with age.
A running back in the NFL isn't in prime condition in late 20s, because of the damage done to their body.

 

[PunchesOnLunches]

So did Randy, Rogan, and at 1 time even Dana.

There is an entire laundry list of people's favorite fighters and legends listing Fedor as their numero uno. I mean we're all just a bunch of dudes and/or dudettes' behind keyboards at the end of the day.

 

[PunchesOnLunches]

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You're clearly an autist lol

Fedor was a lean 237lbs at his peak with very little fat. Had no issues throwing around 250lb men and flooring a 400lb man with one punch.

You're using an example of him from Strikeforce in 2011 when he was on a decline. You know what this word means? DECLINE? That's why he had more fat, less speed, and looked bad in his fignts and started losing. It's called decline.

Low iq

Imo Fedor has never looked *morbidly obese* or anything but has always been on the tubbier looking side but it's because he had the body of a bear, not an action figure and the athletic ability and explosiveness to match. Chalk it up to genetics or whatever but his performances always spoke for themselves. You have a lot pro American football players that are built similarly too with a "healthy" amount of body fat on them as well yet they generate a tremendous amount of power/explosion and some of them move ridiculously fast like a locomotive for their size. It's one thing if Fedor looked like a couch potato but you could always tell he had a strong looking frame, he was just a little thicker looking than most and carried a little extra body fat on him. A Russian bear truly.