Fedor and M1 weren't wrong for wanting co-promotion with UFC

[vintagemmafan]

What's your excuse for his 3 losses in a row in the U.S.? Subbed by Verdun, TKOed by Big Foot and KOed by a much smaller and older Dan Henderson.

None of that is the point and is irrelevant because at that time Fedor was the number 1 in the world in undefeated that's what he negotiations were about.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Excuse?

Please tell me how many HW fighters have been at their peak after 33 fights

And a decade into their careers.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Of course not. Dana is the boss, needs to make money. He is not an agent trying get his client paid. He will and should be looking at the best interest of the company overall. Whether you agree or disagree, you dont matter and same with your opinion unfortunately.

Here's what guys like fail to see because you're ignorant and don't understand basic business and how it works, in a deal there are two parties and for a deal to take place both sides must come to a compromise where both sides feel they are gaining something out of the deal everyone back then and now just think oh the UFC offers this or that and you didn't take wtf are you crazy fukking morons, UFC business practice is simple it goes we're the premiere mma company you're lucky we're giving you a contract and we'll pay you peanuts to destroy your body while we reap the benefits, Fedor isn't a dumb man and knows this and rejected the terms and moved on he's not like one of the many other guys Couture being one that complained afterwards and Tito and many others that went to court over the practices of the company.

 

[Greyscale]

We had a glimpse of how this copro-motion would look like - Fedor vs Maldonado. He gets knocked out several times in the 1st round but the ref appointed by him doesn't stop the fight. In the end, judges appointed by him declared him the winner.

So Fedor wanted to be a Dagestani in UFC but without any sheikh money and with miniscule fanbase in the US.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Here's what guys like fail to see because you're ignorant and don't understand basic business and how it works, in a deal there are two parties and for a deal to take place both sides must come to a compromise where both sides feel they are gaining something out of the deal everyone back then and now just think oh the UFC offers this or that and you didn't take wtf are you crazy fukking morons, UFC business practice is simple it goes we're the premiere mma company you're lucky we're giving you a contract and we'll pay you peanuts to destroy your body while we reap the benefits, Fedor isn't a dumb man and knows this and rejected the terms and moved on he's not like one of the many other guys Couture being one that complained afterwards and Tito and many others that went to court over the practices of the company.

The UFC wasn't offering Fedor peanuts, and Fedor's opinion wasn't the biggest hurdle. Fedor wasn't a free agent, that is why he couldn't sign with the UFC.

It's pretty cut and dry, but people keep making it more complex, likely because they are confused about what M-1 is.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Fedor wasn't the best fighter in the world at the time tho. Zuffa literally cut him for getting plooked in strikeforce around this same time frame give or take. Big foot silva destroyed him using absolutely nothing but weight bullying and no skill. Pre diverticulitis brock would have done the same but worse. People forget that brock's downfall didn't happen till after he got sick and then his cardio was massively diminished. He had a decent chin too. People act like he had a james vick chin. He tanked sledgehammer blows from carwin that would have KOed a kodiak bear. He botched a shooting star press and landed directly on his head and didn't fuckin die but continued the fake wrasslin match fight.

UFC co-promoting with m1 would be silly. M1 was the jobber leagues. The UFC co-promoting with m1 would be like Major league baseball co-promoting with the junior Tee-ball league. M1 brings nothing to the table there other than 1 and only 1 fighter that was beginning his down slide at a suspiciously early age for a heavyweight (prolly cause he wasn't fighting bloated middleweights & light heavyweights anymore like his spoon fed pride competition)

UFC was trying to get Fedor before he even entered SF that's why it was shocking that Fedor went to SF because it was assumed that he would be in UFC I myself even thought he was gonna be fighting there so he was the best fighter in the world undefeated.

 

[vintagemmafan]

This thread is retarded. In no universe was the UFC wrong to turn down that contract demand. Fuck M-1 and their dumbass management lol

You're retarded to think that one side of a business deal should have nothing while the other side gets all the benefit, fact is Fedor didn't really need to be in the UFC as he was financially fine at the time and could have went anywhere which he did, your logic is only UFC should benefit because I'm a huge zuffa zombie and drank the koolaid and fail to see the context of the situation which was the UFC wanted something that M1 had but it had to be on UFC's terms therefore M1 had every right to demand something in return what you or anyone else thinks of M1 doesn't matter worth a shit.

 

[vintagemmafan]

M-1 took it too far with the Demands. If they would have kept it normal, and sign a legit contract so UFC didnt get screwed over like they did with pride, Dana would have been opened to it.

I think Dana is getting better with coming around to the idea of Co-promoting. it seems that he already with Rizin is co promoting in a way. He see's some value in them. I think KSW will be next. they are already bigger than ufc in poland and are expanding at a slow rate to where they're not losing any money. However, dana will never think of co promoting with people like M-1 or PFL

Why tf would they just sign a "normal contract" ie get screwed over for UFC when it was the UFC that wanted something from them lol, the logic here is so dumb if they wanted the number 1 guy at the time it was on them to compromise in the deal instead they were just like here's a random figure now we get full control over you and we don't give a shit about your teammates or anything and if you don't like you're crazy how utterly stupid.

 

[vintagemmafan]

He was signed with M-1. Even when he was fighting in the States those shows were technically M-1 shows.

Fedor was M-1's cash cow, so he wasn't going to let go, and M-1 wasn't going to let up on trying to co-promote with the UFC which was a ridiculous demand considering how much bigger UFC is.

WTF does UFC being bigger than M1 have to do with putting M1 logo on part of the mat during shows that featured Fedor that's all it was free marketing for M1 it's not like M1 was gonna own a part of the UFC, all of what you said is just what you think.

 

[vintagemmafan]

The UFC wasn't offering Fedor peanuts, and Fedor's opinion wasn't the biggest hurdle. Fedor wasn't a free agent, that is why he couldn't sign with the UFC.

It's pretty cut and dry, but people keep making it more complex, likely because they are confused about what M-1 is.

Bottom line they wouldn't sign Fedor because they didnt want to co-promote which wasn't a big deal SF did it with M1, they wanted full control over Fedor that's bullshit so they could market the shit out of him to benefit themselves without little compensation, you guys act like oh my god they were gonna give him so much when he could basically get the same deal somewhere else and I don't even believe it was about the money solely for Fedor it was about the teammates helping his people.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

WTF does UFC being bigger than M1 have to do with putting M1 logo on part of the mat during shows that featured Fedor that's all it was free marketing for M1 it's not like M1 was gonna own a part of the UFC, all of what you said is just what you think.

It has everything to do with it. They're co-promoting the show, but M-1 doesn't bring anything to the table promotionally. They're literally just getting credit and free exposure for letting one of their fighters fight, which is essentially just them being a glorified manager, but unlike most managers they are asking for more than money. M-1 is getting a lot more from the deal than the UFC is, if you're UFC, which doesn't need Fedor to exist (clearly by how they are worth billions now), then it isn't a good deal.


Having a show that says "M-1 Presents: UFC 87: Fedor vs Lesnar" hurts the UFC's brand. Why on earth would you accept that if you're the UFC? Does Coca Cola co-promote with RC Cola? Did WWE, under Vince McMahon co-promote with anyone after they went public? No, because the WWE is the premier brand, it only helps other companies by co-promoting while not getting anything itself.

It'd be a ridiculous proposition for a company as big as the UFC to do that with a tiny no named company. Heck, we can even use you as an example. Why don't you make a promotion and then go call M-1, ACA, KSW, Rizin, ONE or any one else for a co-promotion, why do they say no? Now apply that to the UFC and M-1.

If Fedor was Connor McGregor or Brock Lesnar the UFC might consider it, but Fedor himself isn't so valuable that the UFC would allow another company to say they're promoting their product, when they are not.


The people who know what the UFC know what they are doing, and no one who is well educated in business would have accepted M-1's demands. Financial compensation was what would get the deal done, of course the UFC isn't going to let M-1 own one of their shows, do you honestly realize how insane that is what you're saying? Do you think you should own one of their shows? Because you're closer to what M-1 is than what M-1 was to the UFC.




As for the "it takes two" thing, that is fine for M-1 not to let Fedor go. Would M-1 have benefited from Fedor fighting under the UFC? If they were able to get Fedor back afterward then probably yes. If not, then M-1 was smart to keep Fedor to themselves and offer demands they know the UFC will not meet. But this has nothing to do with Fedor's wishes or being scammed by low pay, it is entirely between M-1 and UFC.


It isn't anyone's "fault" why Fedor did not fight in the UFC. Fedor was not a free agent. M-1 did not want him to fight for the UFC. That's it.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Bottom line they wouldn't sign Fedor because they didnt want to co-promote which wasn't a big deal SF did it with M1, they wanted full control over Fedor that's bullshit so they could market the shit out of him to benefit themselves without little compensation, you guys act like oh my god they were gonna give him so much when he could basically get the same deal somewhere else and I don't even believe it was about the money solely for Fedor it was about the teammates helping his people.

Comparing the UFC to Strikeforce, a company that they literally own now is stupid. You're seriously sitting here talking about business (no offense), and you think that Strikeforce accepting a co-promoting deal with M-1 is why the UFC should have? Strikeforce has smaller market share, brand recognition, and draws, so they have less leverage and naturally take the M-1 co-branding so they can get Fedor. Strikeforce was a regional promotion that only got "national" TV time through a weak network like Showtime.


Strikeforce accepted the deal with M-1 because Strikeforce benefits from it enough that they dont care. The UFC is way above Strikeforce and M-1, so they're not going to meet such demands as promoting another promotion just for one fighter.

 

[vintagemmafan]

It has everything to do with it. They're co-promoting the show, but M-1 doesn't bring anything to the table promotionally. They're literally just getting credit and free exposure for letting one of their fighters fight, which is essentially just them being a glorified manager, but unlike most managers they are asking for more than money. M-1 is getting a lot more from the deal than the UFC is, if you're UFC, which doesn't need Fedor to exist (clearly by how they are worth billions now), then it isn't a good deal.


Having a show that says "M-1 Presents: UFC 87: Fedor vs Lesnar" hurts the UFC's brand. Why on earth would you accept that if you're the UFC? Does Coca Cola co-promote with RC Cola? Did WWE, under Vince McMahon co-promote with anyone after they went public? No, because the WWE is the premier brand, it only helps other companies by co-promoting while not getting anything itself.

It'd be a ridiculous proposition for a company as big as the UFC to do that with a tiny no named company. Heck, we can even use you as an example. Why don't you make a promotion and then go call M-1, ACA, KSW, Rizin, ONE or any one else for a co-promotion, why do they say no? Now apply that to the UFC and M-1.

If Fedor was Connor McGregor or Brock Lesnar the UFC might consider it, but Fedor himself isn't so valuable that the UFC would allow another company to say they're promoting their product, when they are not.


The people who know what the UFC know what they are doing, and no one who is well educated in business would have accepted M-1's demands. Financial compensation was what would get the deal done, of course the UFC isn't going to let M-1 own one of their shows, do you honestly realize how insane that is what you're saying? Do you think you should own one of their shows? Because you're closer to what M-1 is than what M-1 was to the UFC.




As for the "it takes two" thing, that is fine for M-1 not to let Fedor go. Would M-1 have benefited from Fedor fighting under the UFC? If they were able to get the UFC back afterward then probably yes. If not, then M-1 was smart to keep Fedor to themselves and offer demands they know the UFC will not meet. But this has nothing to do with Fedor's wishes or being scammed by low pay, it is entirely between M-1 and UFC.


It isn't anyone's "fault" why Fedor did not fight in the UFC. Fedor was not a free agent. M-1 did not want him to fight for the UFC. That's it.

Dude the problem with everything you're saying here is that you're super slanted for the UFC and again you're making assumptions like the UFC is big and M1 is not that's wrong M1 was the biggest organization in all of Europe and the first ever just because Americans only know UFC doesn't mean shit you're being ignorant here, by co-promoting it never meant M1 would own their show again you're just giving what you think not what you know now I know this because SF co-promoted with M1 did they get ripped off in those deals no they didn't all that occurred is that for a few shows M1 was involved had their brand partially visible and it wasn't M1 presents it was SF and M1 I remember it. UFC didn't want to do that because they're greedy af this is also evident by how so many fighters complain and are blacklisted by UFC a fighter once said that it is not the brand that matters it's the fighters that matter which I agree the problem is the stupid moron fans of today are not fans of the athletes but the stupid little brand all because they fell for marketing that's also why fighter pay is shit the shows suck objectively the sport is not nearly as exciting as it was even 10 year ago.

It is someone's fault why Fedor never signed with the UFC and that's the UFC lol the one's who wanted Fedor in their organization, what on earth are you talking about Fedor was not a free agent M1 his manager were literally gonna sign with UFC's if they co-promoted the same way SF did and signed some of his teammates those aren't ridiculous terms the UFC signed all Khabib's guys but with Fedor they were super disrespectful and greedy and I'm glad Fedor told that bald prick to go fuk himself.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Comparing the UFC to Strikeforce, a company that they literally own now is stupid. You're seriously sitting here talking about business (no offense), and you think that Strikeforce accepting a co-promoting deal with M-1 is why the UFC should have? Strikeforce has smaller market share, brand recognition, and draws, so they have less leverage and naturally take the M-1 co-branding so they can get Fedor. Strikeforce was a regional promotion that only got "national" TV time through a weak network like Showtime.


Strikeforce accepted the deal with M-1 because Strikeforce benefits from it enough that they dont care. The UFC is way above Strikeforce and M-1, so they're not going to meet such demands as promoting another promotion just for one fighter.

Dude the point is going way over your head, I don't give a rat's ass how big UFC is if they wanted the number 1 fighter at that time which was Fedor than they had to meet those terms and they wanted him more than he needed them remember Fedor was already a Pride champ undefeated, even if he went there it would have been a new generation of fighters Cain, Brock, JDS etc, were not competing at the top level during Fedor's run the point is that Fedor didn't have any reason at that point to sign with UFC but had they met those terms he would have instead they declined that's fine but people can stfu about M1 blowing the negotiations alright UFC had more to gain than Fedor whose career was essentially coming to an end by early 2010s.

 

[Cooliox]

The UFC didn’t even attempt to compromise.

It’s entirely on them.

Any business not willing to negotiate is essentially saying no.

 

[DougieJones]

You're retarded to think that one side of a business deal should have nothing while the other side gets all the benefit, fact is Fedor didn't really need to be in the UFC as he was financially fine at the time and could have went anywhere which he did, your logic is only UFC should benefit because I'm a huge zuffa zombie and drank the koolaid and fail to see the context of the situation which was the UFC wanted something that M1 had but it had to be on UFC's terms therefore M1 had every right to demand something in return what you or anyone else thinks of M1 doesn't matter worth a shit.

Fedor gets a ton of money you fucking clown, what are you talking about lmao

 

[vintagemmafan]

Fedor gets a ton of money you fucking clown, what are you talking about lmao

Dude you don't get it at all and have the understanding of a child "he gets a ton of money" fukking dum ass ameritard take, he doesn't need the UFC and their money his main driving force was to see how he could help the team and people around him that was first and foremost not thinking like some greedy American athlete who wants like $50 million and to buy jets and show off, he wanted to help the up and coming fighters and give M1 some exposure in the U.S and another thing that's important to
remember he at no time was seeking out the UFC they came trying to sign him due to public demand at the time not the other way around.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

Fedor and his legacy will never be matched in this modern day era. In his prime, he was destroying competition, but needless to say, his stoic presence, unprecedented killer instinct, and unique ability to overcome adversity led to his legendary status. He also destroyed a number of UFC champs, notably Tim Sylvia and Arlovski in Affliction.

Money was never the driver for these negotiations - the UFC wasn't never in a position to make the fight happen under the UFC banner.

 

[JKS]

LOL the UFC had zero obligation to play along with M1 in this case. Fedor never came and the UFC never missed a beat.

I wanted to se Fedor in the UFC more than anyone, M1 had a plan in mind and it was good for them, but it didn't benefit the UFC.

 

[VAfan]

it looked to me like a roundabout way of ducking, honestly. something along the lines of jones turning down 30 million, like i don't really want to do this but to save face i'm going to pretend i do until i come up with the right excuse not to.