Law FBI raids John Bolton's house looking for "classified documents"

Limbo Pete said:
You're conflating different things. High level members of the government deal with so many documents it's not reasonable to expect they keep track of them all. Archives does that. Again, for the third (?) time, this also includes anything they generate, which is probably millions of individual documents. They = their office, in addition to themselves individually. Nobody at that level of government should reasonably be expected to keep track of this stuff. But, when archives asks, you do what they say.
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Again Senators are not allowed to take classified materials home. You can go on and on about politicians being special, but this wasnt a case of Joe accidently taking home something he himself wrote.


Special counsel Hur found that while the documents were mishandled, there was insufficient evidence to bring criminal charges against President Biden. He stated that Biden would likely have been charged but for the difficulty of prosecuting a sitting president.

I also remember Hurr saying that he would come off as a sympathetic, forgetful old man.
 
PainIsLIfe said:
Again Senators are not allowed to take classified materials home. You can go on and on about politicians being special, but this wasnt a case of Joe accidently taking home something he himself wrote.


Special counsel Hur found that while the documents were mishandled, there was insufficient evidence to bring criminal charges against President Biden. He stated that Biden would likely have been charged but for the difficulty of prosecuting a sitting president.

I also remember Hurr saying that he would come off as a sympathetic, forgetful old man.
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You're still not getting it. Deliberately? Mayhaps. You're painting a picture of Joe Biden picking things up and carting them off aka stealing. That's not how this works. At any given moment, high level politicians -including Senators- have access to a literal ocean of documentation, including everything authored by (if not simply adjacent to) their office. There is _no practical way_ they can keep track of it. _This is one of the main jobs of the national archives_. They TELL people when they have things they need to return, including documents they shouldn't have at all. If you want to make a claim that someone is STEALING documents, then there are numerous layers of policy and political process needed to prove it. That's why nobody relevant gave a shit, despite performative partisanship. Archives asked for things to be returned and he did.... the exact same way they asked for Trump to return things.
 
DoctorTaco said:
Hell ya, and good on you for squeaking by. But that would mean that The letter of law and equal application has room for warnings depending on circumstances surrounding a crime.
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Then its just the officers/prosecutors discretion on he gets charged and who doesnt.
 
Limbo Pete said:
You're still not getting it. Deliberately? Mayhaps. You're painting a picture of Joe Biden picking things up and carting them off aka stealing. That's not how this works. At any given moment, high level politicians -including Senators- have access to a literal ocean of documentation, including everything authored by (if not simply adjacent to) their office. There is _no practical way_ they can keep track of it. _This is one of the main jobs of the national archives_. They TELL people when they have things they need to return, including documents they shouldn't have at all. If you want to make a claim that someone is STEALING documents, then there are numerous layers of policy and political process needed to prove it. That's why nobody relevant gave a shit, despite performative partisanship. Archives asked for things to be returned and he did.... the exact same way they asked for Trump to return thdoesn't.
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Which one to believe:

Hurr (a career prosecutor) said he should be charged except for the fact that he's a forgetful old man that happens to be the president.

Limbo Pete (WR poster) says its no big deal for Senators to take classified material.
 
PainIsLIfe said:
Which one to believe:

Hurr (a career prosecutor) said he should be charged except for the fact that he's a forgetful old man that happens to be the president.

Limbo Pete (WR poster) says its no big deal for Senators to take classified material.
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You don't have to believe anyone. I'm just describing how things work.
 
DoctorTaco said:
Great. Can we apply that to the document case involving Biden?
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I'm saying equal application should be the norm, and there shouldn't be discretion/favoritism by police or prosecutors.

Side note, a had a few friends from h.s. rob a store. One came from the right family and was given probation, the other 2 got jail and the majority of the money was recovered at the probation guys gf house.

Discretion is just a way to excuse the well connected
 
PainIsLIfe said:
I'm saying equal application should be the norm, and there shouldn't be discretion/favoritism by police or prosecutors.

Side note, a had a few friends from h.s. rob a store. One came from the right family and was given probation, the other 2 got jail and the majority of the money was recovered at the probation guys gf house.

Discretion is just a way to excuse the well connected
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why didn’t you demand a ticket when you were caught breaking the law? You were let off the hook which goes against your own morals, yeah?

I agree to what you’re saying about money being able to buy favoritism, but since there can be nuance and circumstances in certain cases I think it’s ok for arbiters of justice to have some leeway on punishments.
 
DoctorTaco said:
why didn’t you demand a ticket when you were caught breaking the law? You were let off the hook which goes against your own morals, yeah?

I agree to what you’re saying about money being able to buy favoritism, but since there can be nuance and circumstances in certain cases I think it’s ok for arbiters of justice to have some leeway on punishments.
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For the same reason you dont pay extra taxes.
 
Limbo Pete said:
Yeeeeeah, for the sake of integrity, you'd think he would have demanded the cop give him a ticket. Equal application of the law at all times across the board. Everyone gets a ticket, no warnings, no discretion over context.
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OK, Hurr said he should be charged if he wasnt a forgetful old man. So, can we at least agree that Joe was wrong and if it had been Tim Kaine instead he would have been?
 
PainIsLIfe said:
OK, Hurr said he should be charged if he wasnt a forgetful old man. So, can we at least agree that Joe was wrong and if it had been Tim Kaine instead he would have been?
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No, we can't agree on that, because it's not the same thing, and even if it was, you still won't acknowledge the very straightforward circumstantial discretion archives uses in document retention
 
Limbo Pete said:
No, we can't agree on that, because it's not the same thing, and even if it was, you still won't acknowledge the very straightforward circumstantial discretion archives uses in document retention
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Hurr was the one that decided, not the archivist
 
PainIsLIfe said:
Evidently you dont. Hurr made the call, he explained why he did and youre going on about the archives.
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There wasn't anything to charge Biden with, not that would have gone anywhere. Hurr would have needed to prove he deliberately took documents -that he knew he should not have- and then concealed it. But that wasn't going to work because simply having the documents wasn't enough for any of that. The main schism between us here is that you seem to want to parse out some kind of technicality that doesn't actually exist, and it doesn't exist because the practical reality of government work at that level precludes any possible plausible way for someone to keep track of all the documents they use or generate. Biden didn't evade charges out of pity for being a sleepy old man, it was just a dead end. And it would have been a dead end with Trump as well, except he refused to give the documents back and then mislead the investigation. For the millionth time, the reason for all of this is because of how archives manages the retention of national documents. Archives policy and procedure is central to every aspect of this discussion. There's a reason they asked Trump nicely a bunch of times to just give the documents back instead of going from 0-100 overnight.
 
Limbo Pete said:
There wasn't anything to charge Biden with, not that would have gone anywhere. Hurr would have needed to prove he deliberately took documents -that he knew he should not have- and then concealed it. But that wasn't going to work because simply having the documents wasn't enough for any of that. The main schism between us here is that you seem to want to parse out some kind of technicality that doesn't actually exist, and it doesn't exist because the practical reality of government work at that level precludes any possible plausible way for someone to keep track of all the documents they use or generate. Biden didn't evade charges out of pity for being a sleepy old man, it was just a dead end. And it would have been a dead end with Trump as well, except he refused to give the documents back and then mislead the investigation. For the millionth time, the reason for all of this is because of how archives manages the retention of national documents. Archives policy and procedure is central to every aspect of this discussion. There's a reason they asked Trump nicely a bunch of times to just give the documents back instead of going from 0-100 overnight.
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Is that the reason Hurr gave for recommending no charges?


Now go ahead and type why Hurr said he recommended no charges. Lol
 
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