FAQ Update: Beginner/Intermediate Routines

I've added a few links but the first post is now at 10,000 characters (the max for one post). Will anyone object if I ask a mod to delete posts 2-5 so post #6 (my second post in the thread) becomes post #2?
 
DrBdan said:
I've added a few links but the first post is now at 10,000 characters (the max for one post). Will anyone object if I ask a mod to delete posts 2-5 so post #6 (my second post in the thread) becomes post #2?
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Can't imagine many would object- IIRC the first few posts are stuff like- "We need to add Starting Strength" and "How about Wendler's 5/3/1?"
 
If a mod swings by can you please delete posts 2-5 so post #6 is the 2nd post? The first post passed the limit of 10,000 characters so I'd like to break it into two posts. Thanks.

Saving this here since I had to remove it to keep the first post under 10,000 characters

--- Need a spreadsheet? ---

This thread contains spreadsheets for many of the most popular programs: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/spreadsheet-thread-1386159/
 
CRZA said:
Isnt the 20rep squat a more of a BB routine, or has anyone got any good strenght gains from it?
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I'm a huge advocate of 20 rep squats. They brought my 1rm up by around 20lbs a week and I gained 20 lbs over the 6 week program when I was a beginner.

Ballbustingly hard though.

Also, not enough love for oly.

Emphasize this: Finding an oly coach in the US

Link these:

Glenn Pendlay's beginner oly program

Dan John's big 21

Beginner oly program

Bulgarian training

Other good stuff
 
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2219 said:
I don't think a censorship of a particular coaches idea's is appropriate. Providing you put it in the intermediate section I don't see the need for a warning.
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If the FAQ section on routines was meant to be an index of every single routine, or training system, I'd agree with you, as I abhor censorship more than I dislike Broz's methods. However, it's meant to be a collection of tried-and-true routines, and I don't believe his system qualifies.

2219 said:
I think it would be positive if more intermediate lifters on here were to try john Broz's principles as the forum would gain a better understanding of high frequency training.
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Broz's methods aren't how high frequency training is generally conducted. Someone trying such training could only gain a better understanding of Broz's methods, and not high frequency training in general.

2219 said:
Interesting very few people on here train like this. Most likely due to the frequency of training Broz recommends most people don't ever seem to try it.
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I don't think it's reasonable to make a blanket assumption as to why people don't choose his training methods, and instead follow other routines. Personally, the reason I don't train like that has very little do with the frequency, and much more to do with the fact I am extremely skeptical of his methods. If you really want to know why people don't train like that, why not start a thread.
 
Well the FAQ is exactly that, frequently asked questions. As Broz is often brought up here, why not provide some information on him?
 
I could add a Training Concepts/Philosophies section at the end for things like this with a note that they are not programs but rather philosophies that can be used to create programs and they probably shouldn't be used by novices.

A general John Broz question in the FAQ might not be a bad idea.
 
DrBdan said:
I could add a Training Concepts/Philosophies section at the end for things like this with a note that they are not programs but rather philosophies that can be used to create programs and they probably shouldn't be used by novices.
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Many of the "routines" in this section are more philosophies, or sets of training methods and principles than programs. For example, Sheiko routines are samples based on Sheiko principles, and stuff like T3 is a method for training a lift, than a complete routine. And there's programs that are more of a grey area like 5/3/1 and Westside.

I don't believe that such a section would benefit the FAQ. It would just result in debate whether programs are "philosophies" or "routines", while, I believe, not adding any pertinent information, or clarity.

DrBdan said:
A general John Broz question in the FAQ might not be a bad idea.
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While I think this is a good idea (I even suggested it in another thread), it also requires some amount of consensus regarding his methods. At least if the answer is going to say anything beyond them being controversial. Unless we "Teach the Controversy".

teach_the_controversy_440.jpg


If I were attempting to be brief, and somewhat balanced, I might write it like so:

While the bravado of daily maxes might sound appealing, Broz's training methods are controversial, and conflict with established sports science. A central concern in the vast majority routines and training philosophies is how to sufficiently stimulate gains while minimizing fatigue and avoiding overtraining. Broz just says that overtraining doesn't exist. While there are other criticisms, this is perhaps the most significant. You can read this links to learn more about his training methods, but they are not recommended.

T NATION | Max Out on Squats Every Day
training q&a questioning conventional wisdom
 
I am going to come right out and say that, IMO, the Broz material 2219 posted should not be posted in the Beginners/Intermediate Programmes thread.

The material in this thread either gives complete programmes with exercises, sets, reps and progression, or a significant amount of that information. The Broz material does not. It does not give you a programme, or part thereof, it very vaguely outlines an approach.

I would say at the most, an FAQ question like: "You guys say that I should work out 2-4 times a week maximum: but don't some people train every day? Or even multiple times a day?" Tosa could construct probably an answer, perhaps something along the lines that yes, it is sometimes done, especially by high-level Oly lifters, but it is probably not something you would do as a beginner or intermediate. The answer could mention that one well-known but controversial approach to High-Frequency Training is Broz's method, and there could be a link.
 
Tosa said:
If I were attempting to be brief, and somewhat balanced, I might write it like so:

While the bravado of daily maxes might sound appealing, Broz's training methods are controversial, and conflict with established sports science. A central concern in the vast majority routines and training philosophies is how to sufficiently stimulate gains while minimizing fatigue and avoiding overtraining. Broz just says that overtraining doesn't exist. While there are other criticisms, this is perhaps the most significant. You can read this links to learn more about his training methods, but they are not recommended.

T NATION | Max Out on Squats Every Day
training q&a questioning conventional wisdom
Click to expand...

Yeah but what if Dr. Seuss were writing it?

Do you like every day maxes?
I do not like them.
I would not like them
here or there.
I do not like them.

What about what if it were a Nicolas Cage movie?

Cage stars as Broz and something's wrong with weightlifting and only he can get to the bottom of things. No one believes him and he's running out of time, covered in bees, and wearing someone else's face. Luckily, due to believing in aliens, having access to a motorcycle and psychic visions, Cage is able to save the weightlifting community in the "nick" of time.
 
PowerHungry said:
Yeah but what if Dr. Seuss were writing it?

Do you like every day maxes?
I do not like them.
I would not like them
here or there.
I do not like them.
Click to expand...

I think we can do Dr Seuss better than that. E.g.

"Do you max out every day?
No matter what the bar may weigh?
Do you max out with your squat?
In the gym, feeling good or not?
Do you max out, though your mother
Said not to max, you can't recover?
Do you max out every day, Mr Squat-I-Am?"

"I do not max out every day!
I know how much the bar will weigh.
I do not max out with my squat:
Sometimes resting, like as not
Take it easy and do some other
Work to let myself recover."
 
Very good. Now it just needs some made up words.
 
JauntyAngle said:
I think we can do Dr Seuss better than that. E.g.

"Do you max out every day?
No matter what the bar may weigh?
Do you max out with your squat?
In the gym, feeling good or not?
Do you max out, though your mother
Said not to max, you can't recover?
Do you max out every day, Mr Squat-I-Am?"

"I do not max out every day!
I know how much the bar will weigh.
I do not max out with my squat:
Sometimes resting, like as not
Take it easy and do some other
Work to let myself recover."
Click to expand...

You're a poet Jaunty.

A freakin poet :)
 
Tosa said:
Very good. Now it just needs some made up words.
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IIRC, in 'Green Eggs and Ham' (which I was more or less using the rhythm and structure of) he doesn't use made-up words/imaginary things. It is also relatively prosaic thing- "Would you eat them in a box? Would you eat them with a fox?", "Would you eat them in a house? Would you eat them with a mouse?". But, obviously, I didn't keep the structure of asking someone if they would max out every day in different situations and with different types of companions, which I would have needed to have done to adapt GE&H more literally.
 
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I was only thinking of Dr. Seuss more generally.

However, considering that particular poem, in the end he tries, and likes, green eggs and ham. I'm not sure if a poem based on green eggs and ham is the best answer for a Broz related FAQ question.

Still I'm very impressed with your poetry. Is that what you do? Teach Afghanis to be poet ghost writers for wealthy nitwits who want to author books? Like a literary version of Indian call centres.
 
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