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Evidence of Jones' Guilt

Jojomojo said:
Its a different story when everybody is on roids. Jones is basically allowed to compete against non-roided opposition
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Yeah the real question is if we shoot into the ass of Santos, Cormier, Gustafson, how much different would those fights play out
 
Phi- said:
What extra weight? Jon still fights @ LHW, there is no extra weight.

Maybe I should've said "pretty obvious to anybody that's not stupid or a fanboi".
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Have you ever taken anything? I have for several years. I dont compete in anything though so none of the flaming shit. With roids, there will almost always be extra water weight. Just because he made weight doesnt mean he wasnt carrying extra water or mass that normally isnt there that will indeed affect cardio. People get the misconception that when you're on roids, you are amped up and train like an animal. For some folks it may be that way, I can only speak for myself. Yes i can go in the gym and lift more etc etc but im actually more sluggish and unmotivated. You stay tired a lot. Again, not everyone is the same obviously but thats been my experience.
 
JanssenC said:
Have you ever taken anything? I have for several years. I dont compete in anything though so none of the flaming shit. With roids, there will almost always be extra water weight. Just because he made weight doesnt mean he wasnt carrying extra water or mass that normally isnt there that will indeed affect cardio. People get the misconception that when you're on roids, you are amped up and train like an animal. For some folks it may be that way, I can only speak for myself. Yes i can go in the gym and lift more etc etc but im actually more sluggish and unmotivated. You stay tired a lot. Again, not everyone is the same obviously but thats been my experience.
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The questions isn't wether you are tired or unmotivated in absolute terms. It's about how much more tired you would be without it. Try it and compare. It also obviously depends on what exactly you are taking and on the dose. Tramadol will have a hugely different impact than Turinabol. And no, don't try Tramadol please. lol
 
legkicktko said:
Yeah the real question is if we shoot into the ass of Santos, Cormier, Gustafson, how much different would those fights play out
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Yeah, especially the Cormier and Gustafsson ones where he pulled through in the championship rounds, that's where the sauce comes into play
 
Phi- said:
The questions isn't wether you are tired or unmotivated in absolute terms. It's about how much more tired you would be without it. Try it and compare. It also obviously depends on what exactly you are taking and on the dose. Tramadol will have a hugely different impact than Turinabol. And no, don't try Tramadol please. lol
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Lol no worries, i stopped taking the stuff because i was lethargic all the time. I agree with you on the dose and type of stuff you're taking. Plus a particular type of steroid wont necessarily affect me the same way it does you so its hard to gauge that. On another note, I honestly would love to see a juiced Santos vs juiced Reyes. Would be an absolute war.
 
Jojomojo said:
Its a different story when everybody is on roids. Jones is basically allowed to compete against non-roided opposition
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Except he’s also not roided, per the experts.
 
legkicktko said:
Yeah the real question is if we shoot into the ass of Santos, Cormier, Gustafson, how much different would those fights play out
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What evidence do you have that he had performance enhancing benefits for any of those fights? Even for DC, the arbitrator concluded he didn’t have any performance enhancing benefits based on the evidence and his test result history. He didn’t flag on the 6th and 7th, then flagged on the 28th for traces of m3, then didn’t flag on fight night the next day. So based on tbol protocol, it’s unlikely that he had effective doses of tbol in that time. Leading up to a fight.

Of course, I don’t expect a real, thoughtful response....
 
kflo said:
What evidence do you have that he had performance enhancing benefits for any of those fights? Even for DC, the arbitrator concluded he didn’t have any performance enhancing benefits based on the evidence and his test result history. He didn’t flag on the 6th and 7th, then flagged on the 28th for traces of m3, then didn’t flag on fight night the next day. So based on tbol protocol, it’s unlikely that he had effective doses of tbol in that time. Leading up to a fight.

Of course, I don’t expect a real, thoughtful response....
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That's what they found, but is there a possibility things are masked that they didn't find? That's what my thought would be.

I know the logical thing to say is "but what if DC was masking, we would never know" and that's true, but in Jones' case it is very suspicious for the following reasons in combination:

  • Chael called Jones out years ago saying he was on steroids and hid under the octagon. I know Chael is crazy, but he didn't accuse Aldo, or DC, or Gustaffson, or anyone else. He accused Jones and this was before Jones popped. Coincidence? Maybe.
  • Jones' brother/brothers have failed for performance enhancing drugs.
  • Jones had a verbal slip up by say "I beat Daniel the second time off of steroids".
  • USDA's explanation has holes in it. Novitski said to Rogan... "he didn't intentionally cheat, it was a tainted supplement" and then Rogan asked what supplement and Novitski said "we don't know, we never found out what it was". That is a logical flaw. That is like you accusing me of murder, the cops saying to you that I was not at the crime scene due to a bulletproof alibi, you asking where I was, and they said "we don't know, but not there".
 
legkicktko said:
That's what they found, but is there a possibility things are masked that they didn't find? That's what my thought would be.

I know the logical thing to say is "but what if DC was masking, we would never know" and that's true, but in Jones' case it is very suspicious for the following reasons in combination:

  • Chael called Jones out years ago saying he was on steroids and hid under the octagon. I know Chael is crazy, but he didn't accuse Aldo, or DC, or Gustaffson, or anyone else. He accused Jones and this was before Jones popped. Coincidence? Maybe.
  • Jones' brother/brothers have failed for performance enhancing drugs.
  • Jones had a verbal slip up by say "I beat Daniel the second time off of steroids".
  • USDA's explanation has holes in it. Novitski said to Rogan... "he didn't intentionally cheat, it was a tainted supplement" and then Rogan asked what supplement and Novitski said "we don't know, we never found out what it was". That is a logical flaw. That is like you accusing me of murder, the cops saying to you that I was not at the crime scene due to a bulletproof alibi, you asking where I was, and they said "we don't know, but not there".
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none of that is in any way an explanation for his test results, other than the idea he was "masking" other stuff. which makes no sense, that he would be using substances almost guaranteed to flag while effectively masking everything else. who would use such a ridiculous protocol in the weeks leading up to a fight that would mask everything but the metabolite almost guaranteed to still show itself. and i referenced tbol doping protocol because it's important here. you dose it daily for an extended period. leading up to a fight it makes zero sense. the russians switched from tbol to tren because of the detection window of tbol...

there's never been a single first hand account of jones hiding under an octagon. never. and since you know it was only one brother why would you reference both brothers?

and you know novitzky doesn't work for usada, right?
 
kflo said:
What evidence do you have that he had performance enhancing benefits for any of those fights? Even for DC, the arbitrator concluded he didn’t have any performance enhancing benefits based on the evidence and his test result history. He didn’t flag on the 6th and 7th, then flagged on the 28th for traces of m3, then didn’t flag on fight night the next day. So based on tbol protocol, it’s unlikely that he had effective doses of tbol in that time. Leading up to a fight.

Of course, I don’t expect a real, thoughtful response....
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The thoughtful response, Kshill, would be that USADA and the UFC thought it helped him enough to call it a No-Contest.
 
TrueFightFan said:
The thoughtful response, Kshill, would be that USADA and the UFC thought it helped him enough to call it a No-Contest.
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It's ok. I laid out points for him but he would rather believe they are all coincidences and Jones is obviously not a pathological cheater.
 
kflo said:
What evidence do you have that he had performance enhancing benefits for any of those fights? Even for DC, the arbitrator concluded he didn’t have any performance enhancing benefits based on the evidence and his test result history. He didn’t flag on the 6th and 7th, then flagged on the 28th for traces of m3, then didn’t flag on fight night the next day. So based on tbol protocol, it’s unlikely that he had effective doses of tbol in that time. Leading up to a fight.

Of course, I don’t expect a real, thoughtful response....
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It is a fact that steroids give you long term benefits besides short term (during training/camp etc)... and tests suggest that he had used steroids at some point in time. They cannot know when, but 100% he used them if he has metabolites found in his system.
 
NenadRS said:
It is a fact that steroids give you long term benefits besides short term (during training/camp etc)... and tests suggest that he had used steroids at some point in time. They cannot know when, but 100% he used them if he has metabolites found in his system.
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Lots of guys used before they were in a testing program. I suppose they also have long term benefits and are therefore all cheaters.
 
legkicktko said:
It's ok. I laid out points for him but he would rather believe they are all coincidences and Jones is obviously not a pathological cheater.
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You didn’t lay out points. I responded and then you didn’t.
 
NenadRS said:
It is a fact that steroids give you long term benefits besides short term (during training/camp etc)... and tests suggest that he had used steroids at some point in time. They cannot know when, but 100% he used them if he has metabolites found in his system.
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Facts. Don't bother arguing with deluded fanboys of the cowardly cheater. And he just got busted for another dwi.
 
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