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International Europe’s soldiers keep quitting, just when NATO needs them

Yea this is a problem

Funding is good but you need people to use those weapons as well.I posted in some ukr thread assesment of us war college /west point that time of professional armies is coming to an end.Pro army cannot sustain casualties in ukr level conflict

Militaries should have some benefit for people that serve since people dont want to work for low pay and be treated like shit (usa has that college thing which is great for example)

There was a thread here which was completely against conscription yet in WW3 type scenario there would need to be one
We of course do have supply / demand type stuff.
And in crisis times like 2008 autumn / 2009 th we had more suitable lads volunteering to work for military as pros...than we had places and $. Also Covid Plan Demic era was the same btw...cos lesser jobs awailable.

One from our doctors was surprised why Okraina had suspected doctors who had verdict that 30% of guys ( or uncles ) are not suitable for military service.
While our doctors are checking 18-35 y.o lads without bad medical records ....and if you are some kind of commisioned officer level with a lot of papers ...then 45...y.o

While Ukraine is attempting to conscript 25-59 y.o citizens....and might don't understand doctor who does have to fultfill duty as citizen and Doctor.....when does have batch with 55+ y.o chronic alcoholics to examine. Jesus
.......
 
We're having manning issues here in the US too. In the guard (can't speak to active duty and reserves) there's just too much competition from the private sector. Plus a lot of people are tired of going to drill and just sitting around doing nothing. Plus getting promoted in certain MOS's is hard. There's plenty of other gripes but those are some big ones.
- Isnt the USA armed force atractive?

Here in Brazil you dont have literaly any benefit, after you leave the army, to schoool, no trade!
 
No one is going to fight for bankers/the military industrial complex for shit pay. Shocking. It's not as if it's the peoples military anyway, they're all totally controlled by special interests trying to start wars. Fuck em
- It's actually better to get the training and become a PMC.

Actually the private sector is honest with the reasons they're fighting, money. Not freedom!
 
In the future national governments will be Corporatocracies who field PMCs to fight other corporation's PMCs for trade rights, resource access and take overs.
 
People more and more realize they are just a number their government, to their employer, and feeling less bonded to their fellow citizens than ever.

Not a good recipe for wanting people to make the ultimate sacrifice "for their country". So pretty tough gig to attract talent -- you have to pay more really and have more of a de facto mercenary force.
 
People more and more realize they are just a number their government, to their employer, and feeling less bonded to their fellow citizens than ever.

Not a good recipe for wanting people to make the ultimate sacrifice "for their country". So pretty tough gig to attract talent -- you have to pay more really and have more of a de facto mercenary force.
I would argue all too often the issue is people realise that there not being asked to die "for their country" but rather are being paid to be mercs for the international interests of the ultra wealthy.

If being in the UK army really meant defending the UK not being asked to get blown up in Afghanistan or Iraq for the above maybe people would care about it more?
 
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Western allies weigh up conscription or national service, as the threat from Russia grows.

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BY LAURA KAYALI AND JOSHUA POSANER

PARIS — It’s no longer so much about recruiting new soldiers as it is about persuading existing troops not to quit.
This week, French Armed Forces Minister Sébastien Lecornu presented a talent retention plan to incentivize military personnel to remain in uniform.

That comes a few days after an annual report submitted to the German parliament showed that in 2023, some 1,537 soldiers left the Bundeswehr, reducing it to 181,514 personnel.

“Those conversations now exist in all capitals, in all democracies that have professional armies without conscription,” Lecornu said on Monday, mentioning the United Kingdom and the United States.

“At NATO meetings, we can talk about equipment, but now we also talk about ... the level of retention,” he added.

As Europe rearms in reaction to the war in Ukraine, countries such as Croatia are mulling bringing back conscription. Others, like Denmark, plan to expand it to include women. Germany scrapped conscription in 2011, but with many in the military ageing out of service there’s renewed discussion over some kind of national service system being reintroduced.

For countries relying on professional armies, the challenge is to make the armed forces attractive — something that's difficult to do in times of low unemployment, fierce competition from the private sector and widespread use of remote working.

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Not only about money​

In France, military personnel are staying in the armed forces on average one year less than they used to. In the U.K., there’s been an annual hiring shortfall of 1,100 troops — equivalent to two infantry battalions — even though the government contracted out recruitment to private firm Capita.

Money does play a part in getting people to stay. One of the French plan’s flagship measures is to boost retirement pensions by integrating bonuses; salaries are also being increased. But the problem is that the terms of service just aren’t that attractive, with chronic overtime, months-long absences from home and missed recuperation periods commonplace.

“The issue is not recruiting but retention, we need to retain also families,” Admiral Lisa Franchetti, the U.S. Navy’s chief of naval operations, said at a conference in Paris earlier this year.

In Poland, the new government earlier this year announced pay hikes of about 20 percent in an effort to retain troops. The minimum monthly salary for a soldier is rising from 4,960 złoty (€1,150) to 6,000 złoty. In response to the growing threat from Russia, the Polish military has grown from 95,000 in 2015 to 215,000 this year.

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The French plan includes help finding housing and accessing healthcare and childcare. Couples who both work within the armed forces ministry, even if one is a civilian, will be able to transfer posts together.

"I'd rather have fewer recruitments to improve retention than to go on a recruitment spree in which the number of people retained are constantly falling," Lecornu said.

In Germany, as part of efforts to beef up national defense, the government wants to get its armed forces headcount to 203,000 by the early 2030s — but recruitment is only growing slowly.

The Bundestag’s special commissioner for the armed forces, Eva Högl, has said that reinstating some form of conscription is one way to turn things around, but targeting women is a more obvious move to arrest the decline since potential there is “far from exhausted,” the lawmaker wrote.

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Legislation passed last year seeks to make conditions more attractive, including more support for childcare and increased retirement pensions.

There aren’t just problems with the hours, but also basic infrastructure. "When I visit the troops, I no longer hear that helmets and protective vests are missing — but lockers," wrote Högl in the annual report.

According to Högl, fixing up barracks and military facilities will cost around €50 billion — equivalent to half the total special fund the government created to update its military forces in the wake of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

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Laura Kayali reported from Paris, Joshua Posaner reported from Berlin.

https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-russia-ukraine-war-defense-france-germany-soldiers-army/
Pay playes a huge role in this. Unless you are from Switzerland, the pay is very low - See slide 9 to see the pay for soldiers in different EU countries in Euros-

 
- Isnt the USA armed force atractive?

Here in Brazil you dont have literaly any benefit, after you leave the army, to schoool, no trade!
It can be depending on your experience. From my experience being in the national guard, I did get good training and experience, plus I'll get a small pension. You do have to put up with a lot of BS and promotions were not easy to come by. In the civilian sector you're in total control. I believe if you join the guard now you get a 401k type plan which in my opinion is not as good as a pension.

Really depends on the route you go and what your goals are.
 
Yeah it ain't happening. Any country in Europe that tries to impose conscription will see their government toppled. Nobody in Europe is ready or willing for high intensity combat. All the noise coming from homos like macron has no support among the population.
Traditionally they use false flags to get things rolling. Plus all the propaganda.
Imagine risking your life for a shit terrorist organization like NATO.
As difficult as it is to believe, there are plenty of people doing so as we post.

/

After leaving the British military you are eligible to be recalled for a few years. How long depends on this and that and is quite complex, but for some people it's up to age 67. This article says 77,000 people are eligible.
 
It can be depending on your experience. From my experience being in the national guard, I did get good training and experience, plus I'll get a small pension. You do have to put up with a lot of BS and promotions were not easy to come by. In the civilian sector you're in total control. I believe if you join the guard now you get a 401k type plan which in my opinion is not as good as a pension.

Really depends on the route you go and what your goals are.
- I've watched two brazilians that made to the usa armed forces:

https://www.youtube.com/@sargentoamericano/videos

I discovered this channel one or two years ago, didn't knew foreigns could serve the usa army.
 
- I've watched two brazilians that made to the usa armed forces:

https://www.youtube.com/@sargentoamericano/videos

I discovered this channel one or two years ago, didn't knew foreigns could serve the usa army.
That's cool. There's probably a bunch of programs available that most people don't know about. There was one guy in basic training with me that wasn't from the US. Was coming in as a pharmacy tech I think.

You mentioned that the Brazilian military doesn't off any benefits. Does that apply even if you retire from service?
 
That's cool. There's probably a bunch of programs available that most people don't know about. There was one guy in basic training with me that wasn't from the US. Was coming in as a pharmacy tech I think.

You mentioned that the Brazilian military doesn't off any benefits. Does that apply even if you retire from service?
- If you retire as a high ranking member, you get one of the highest pensions in the contry. But if you serve lets say: four years, you get out with nothing, maybe a note of recomendation. They do teache some professional skills to be fair like painting or chain management, but you get out without any benefite, no paid schools, courses or trades.

Thats is why i was so critical of Bolsonaro and his cronnies. If they cared so mych about it, why not try to implement some career project?
 
- If you retire as a high ranking member, you get one of the highest pensions in the contry. But if you serve lets say: four years, you get out with nothing, maybe a note of recomendation. They do teache some professional skills to be fair like painting or chain management, but you get out without any benefite, no paid schools, courses or trades.

Thats is why i was so critical of Bolsonaro and his cronnies. If they cared so mych about it, why not try to implement some career project?
Our recruitment and retention numbers are pretty low as it is. If they took away the benefits the government would probably have to make people do mandatory service.
 
Yea this is a problem

Funding is good but you need people to use those weapons as well.I posted in some ukr thread assesment of us war college /west point that time of professional armies is coming to an end.Pro army cannot sustain casualties in ukr level conflict

Militaries should have some benefit for people that serve since people dont want to work for low pay and be treated like shit (usa has that college thing which is great for example)

There was a thread here which was completely against conscription yet in WW3 type scenario there would need to be one

Your life is way safer in Hamas than in the civilian population. Same thing in voluntary service. If you are a part of the professional military when SHTF, you are way less likely to be selected for having your life thrown away than someone who is conscripted. When WW3 happens, I bet the professional soldier of the EU will have the lowest casualty rate compared with the conscripts and the civilians.
 
Imagine risking your life for a shit terrorist organization like NATO.
We have gone from
We are just going to be in the middle east battling the Baddies "Terrorists, AQ" to we might fight the Russians or China.
 
"Even though the government has contracted out recruitment to private firm Capita" that decision has been part of problem in the the UK they've been shit at processing potential recruits people don't want to hang round for half a year , the Army has lost 10's of thousands of recruits due to them getting pissed of with delays and going and doing something else instead , it's crap it's been crap for a decade but nothing gets done about it .
 
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