escaping the triangle choke

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by GracieStudent, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

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    can anyone tell me the best way to defend or escape the triangle? i got caught in it yesterday and b4 i tapped i was trying to think of ways to escape or reverse- i did try and fold em but that wasn't happening. it just seems tough to defend if you trying to pass the guard. he's got the armbar if the triangle doesn't work, that sucks
     
  2. Ashton

    Ashton Allez Cuisine!

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    If you feel someone going for it stand straight up.

    If you're caught in it you can try stepping on one of their biceps, pinning it to the ground and leaning back, but this can expose you to heel hooks. I don't suggest stacking, but you can lift them up and slam ala Hughes, or lift them up and get a knee on their tailbone and come down.
     
  3. Rotund Grappler

    Rotund Grappler Black Belt

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    you dont suggest stacking but suggest slamming? i always go for the stack if i can. id never slam a guy in practice, in most bjj you cant slam anyways.
     
  4. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    Keep your head up. First off, try to prevent him from trapping an arm, that's where it starts.
     
  5. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

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    thanks but we def can't be slaming no one, i'd get in a lot of trouble for that. so head up and don't let him trap the arm? cool but that's tough cuz he's got 2 arms free and he's def going to use them to grab
     
  6. wOg

    wOg Burien Top Team

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    I was watching 101 Submissions the other night and I was amazed that none of the guys who got caught in triangles even <i>tried</i> the counter.

    I've only been training since August, but this counter that our instructor taught us seems spot on to me.

    The first thing to do is relieve the pressure of the choke. To do this, stand up with the leg that is on the <i>same side</i> as the trapped arm. Keep your other knee on the mat.

    Everybody stands up with the opposite leg. This only makes the choke worse because by doing that you are driving your upper body (and head) deeper into your trapped arm.

    There are a couple of "moving parts" that happen more or less at the same time. With the leg up, you want to turn and drive that knee down into the guy's chest. The leg that has the knee on the ground you want to go perpendicular to the guy's butt (sort of the way you do prop your leg under the guy's head in a tight S-mount).

    Essentially you are turning into the choke, driving the knee that is on the same side as the trapped arm around his leg and into his abdomen.

    Hand position: With the hand of the trapped arm, you want to grab the opposite collar (or trapezius, if you're fighting no gi) and bring your forearm across the throat (adjust depending on sparring partner versus tournament competition). Use that as leverage to bring your body closer and to work your way around his leg toward the trapped side.

    You are essentially grinding and stacking. The important thing is to move your body in the direction of the trapped arm. Stack his body tightly so that he doesn't counter the counter by switching to an armbar and put him on his head as you work to "pass the triangle."

    With your free hand you want to grab the pants or the hip to keep him from turning with you as you move around his leg in the direction of the trapped arm.

    I don't know if I've described it well. I haven't seen this counter in any of the bjj books I own or online, but it's already done a lot for my triangle defense. Even if you don't get all of the parts right at first, it seems to have a lot of the right mechanics (i.e., stepping up on the trapped side, not the opposite site).

    I'd be curious what some of you experienced jiu jitsu guys think of it. Of course the best triangle defense is to not get caught in one in the first place ...
     
  7. Ashton

    Ashton Allez Cuisine!

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    I have never successfully stacked a triangle... ever. That's just me though, I'm not the heaviest guy in the world so I don't stack too often. I would absolutely never slam a teammate in practice.
     
  8. GracieStudent

    GracieStudent Orange Belt

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    whoa, that was awsome. jesus man thanks. that was exactly what i needed. seems like it would be tough creating the balance of not getting your arm (shoulder) all messed trying to stack and grind BUT it is something to work on cuz when your in a secure triangle u ain't stackin unless you outweigh the guy by 100lbs...

    in fact i'm going to allow myself to get caught in a few triangles and try and work this one.

    amazing, thanks
     
  9. NeelyWCU

    NeelyWCU Brown Belt

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    i too would like to know if the more experienced guys think what this one guy mapped out makes sense/is correct...it sounds good to me so far
     
  10. Flibb

    Flibb Uwe Boll fan

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    I got another one.
    Grab the collar with your free arm and create pressure. Posture up and either break the triagle with it or spin your upper body to the site of the free arm to break it. You leave yourself open for no leg armbars on the free arm but you get out of the triangle.
    I usually wait till the other guy gets bored because i don't tap and they can't choke me in 90% of the cases.
     
  11. flyingknee16

    flyingknee16 Brown Belt

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    once the triangle is locked on if the guy is good you're going to sleep.
     
  12. AgentZ

    AgentZ Blue Belt

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    All you really need to do is posture up (don't stand and/or stack because that just makes the choke worse and faster) and as you posture up you corckscrew your body away from your trapped arm to break his legs open. This technique is for No-Gi, I have no idea if it works with a Gi.

    The key point here though is to Posture and not stack or stand up.
     
  13. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    me neither, but im 60kg. i got stacked big fucking time by a 120+ kg dude last night though. any counters to that?
     
  14. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    If you can feel it coming posture up.

    If the legs are somewhat in position to choke you the turn in escape or leg thrown over is good. The turn in basically you stack them till you're straight on with your opponent- this way, they are not at an angle & if you can shift your arm away from your throat you shouldn't be choked althought there will be pressure. In this position your opponent will figure the choke isn't in & they will try sigt their hips out towards the trapped arm side. As they do this you want to go with this movement & throw your body in that direction. About 8/10 out of this will pop their legs open as is a strong thrusting movement.

    The other I like, which I find has a more successful escape rate (yet leaves you in a poor position) is the leg throw over escape. Here, you again grab at their trousers & push your arm away from you throat to make the choke weaker. With your other hand push down on their chest (you will be in standing based out position) & lean down on them. Then quickly throw the leg on the same side as the pressuring arm all the way round & over their body & pull back as you fall backwards. Poo thing about this is you end up either pretty much mounted or awaiting a footlock. However it usually busts you out the triangle.

    I FUCKING hate triangles yet love them offensively. I would say they are the easiest sub to pick up on.
     
  15. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

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    Oh & two nasty one from a Rutten tape that are good for MMA not that I know but look effective. One is just to except the fact you are in a triangle & reaching with your arms fro their neck & cranking their neck towards their body.. sloppy but would seem to get someone to shift their hips away.

    Second... you do the leg^ swoop variation except you leave your knee on their jaw & drop your weight down. Painful looking.
     
  16. The Wrecker

    The Wrecker Orange Belt

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    put ur knee in his butt and hold ur trapped arm so he can eblow lock u
     
  17. Tri-StateTerror

    Tri-StateTerror Blue Belt

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    Maintain good posture lift your head high and straighten the back also place the knee of the same arm that is caught inside of the guys butt in order to prevent him from pulling into you than use your free hand as a base behind his thigh and begin to work your shoulders in a motion as if you were putting a shirt on while pushing with the free arm on the back of the thigh.
     
  18. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    Only problem i see with this escape is your asking to be armlocked.. and to me the armlock is harder to escape then the triangle.

    any time a guy gets closed on a triangle i just try to pass harder to get around his leg.. if he has it tight and im stuck i just put my arms under him and lock my hands.. Giving him the omoplatta.. When he goes for the omoplatta give it to him completely as he turns he will give you the momentum to jump over him. As you jump he is probably going to grab one of your legs to stop you from jumping.. So then you figure 4 the arm he is using to stop u and roll forward transitioning from you being into an omoplatta to putting him in one..... I use this escape every time and have not been caught in a omoplatta since.

    Its not conventional, and def was never taught to do it this way.. but it works for me.. every single time..

    if the guy doesnt stop the leg i flip over and land with my legs around him in a triangle motion.. then he has to defend.. releasing my arm and now im out and he is in my guard, or in my triangle.

    This is probably the hardest thing in the world to explain.. I can pull it off again and again but even when i try to show it to people they mess it up and cant get the omoplatta from the start... if i can one day, ill post a vid of it in action.

    other then my unconventional way of dealing with it.. I like pushing the knee to ground method, or like the other guys have said.. putting a knee in the tail bone works wonders. i just feel those two use more strength and get my upper body tired.. when i can just give the omoplatta and get out most times.
     
  19. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    If you're Bas Rutten, when you do the leg thrown over escape you can immediatly transition into a knee bar. Me I just escape and then scramble for position. Usually I don't reach with the arm because you'll get wrist or arm locked (the kimura from the triangle position really hurts)
     
  20. Jiu-Jitsu Cop

    Jiu-Jitsu Cop Green Belt

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    I find stacking works best but you have to keep your legs back so your opponent does not hook your legs and stops you from walking around him. I tend to go to the side of my free arm because the knee of my opponent can not bend into his own chest while maintaining the choke. I do have to reach accross my opponent to stop him from spining with me but I find an arm bar fiarly easy to defeat. Stacking will not make the choke tighter. If I can get my head almost to my opponents head he can not keep a tight choke. But if the triangle is sunk deep then it is time to go to sleep.
     

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