End all GOAT Discussion

[-Sideways-]

1. GSP
2. Fedor
3. Silva
4. Mouse

 

[BowserJr]

​

LOL

But anyways do you actually think WW or even LW move like bantam weights?

They're so fucking fast and they dont get tired cuz they have so much less weight to carry.

It's like comparing a go cart to a lambo.

Go kart is gonna maneuver much better and faster on a track with many turns and hairpins but of course the lambo is the better car

 

[MotorCityCobra]

Sadly it's just obviously

JONES
GSP

Silva
Khabib
Mighty Mouse

Honorable mention Fedor but I look at his streak similarly to boxing history pre modern era.

Fedor had arguably the most impressive run and looked the best. But the relative infancy of the sport / lack of regulations / how he looked post PRIDE call into question just how good he was.

No drug testing, guys looking all universe fighting on who knows what, under different rules...then guys who were ordinary / decent Hendo, Rampage, Anderson coming over and dominating in UFC while the elites in PRIDE looked mediocre makes the whole thing hard to judge.

You watch the modern heavyweights, then watch Fedor and CroCop in Japan and tell me Stipe Miocic would beat them or even be a top opponent of theirs it seems far fetched.

However Fedor got washed several times after and don't get me started on Mirko. If he had retired after PRIDE folded I'd say even putting Jones above Fedor is ridiculous. But as it panned out Fedor has to be put in the bin with guys like Sakuraba, Kerr, Vovchanchyn, F Shamrock, etc as GOATs from the previous era.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

Jon jones is the greatest
there is no discussion/debate to be had.

a way better debate
would be whose the second & third best..... and id go Anderson silva but could understand
if someone picked fedor/gsp.. but its Jon jones and its not even close..

Agreed, and Cormier deserves an honorable mention as well.

I still think he would get creamed if he actually fought several top ten heavyweights and that he also would have even at his peak... but as careers stand Jones is obviously number 1 and it isn't close.

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

• The only way to settle who is the p4p GOAT is to define what is meant by p4p GOAT. There are generally 4 school of thought. I'll name the top 3 for each one

A. Absolute PEAK undefeatability/skill
B. Best accolades/record
C. Best fighter
D. Best competitor

A.
1. Fedor
2. Jones
3. Silva

B.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

C.
1. Fedor
2. Silva
3. BJ Penn

D.
1. Jones
2. GSP
3. Silva

It really comes down to which one outweigh more. To me Fighter and Undefeatability are the 2 most important. Clearly to many Sherbros Record and competitor are more important.

A few things to note

• I don't count Flyweight cuz its too shallow and they're just too small.
• Fighter refers to having budo and fighting to see who is the best at fighting rather than who's the best at the sport of MMA
• Competitor refers to competing in MMA to see who is the best at the sport which also means gaming the rules, judging and structure
• In case you didn't know Silva was ranked #1 at WW and of course MW and top 3 at LHW. That's why I put him in the record/accolades section over undefeated khabib. Sorry Khabib fans top 3 in 3 weightclasses and #1 in 2 is more impressive than undefeated with only a handful of big wins
• Losses at the end of a career doesnt mean much. If it did Muhammad Ali would not be consensus boxing GOAT over guys like Lennox Lewis or Riddick Bowe

My overall pick is Fedor because again I weigh fighter much higher than competitor and losses at the end when they shouldn't be fighting dont weigh much

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

My bad. But that criteria names AS as the goat

 

[BowserJr]

Sadly it's just obviously

JONES
GSP

Silva
Khabib
Mighty Mouse

Honorable mention Fedor but I look at his streak similarly to boxing history pre modern era.

Fedor had arguably the most impressive run and looked the best. But the relative infancy of the sport / lack of regulations / how he looked post PRIDE call into question just how good he was.

No drug testing, guys looking all universe fighting on who knows what, under different rules...then guys who were ordinary / decent Hendo, Rampage, Anderson coming over and dominating in UFC while the elites in PRIDE looked mediocre makes the whole thing hard to judge.

You watch the modern heavyweights, then watch Fedor and CroCop in Japan and tell me Stipe Miocic would beat them or even be a top opponent of theirs it seems far fetched.

However Fedor got washed several times after and don't get me started on Mirko. If he had retired after PRIDE folded I'd say even putting Jones above Fedor is ridiculous. But as it panned out Fedor has to be put in the bin with guys like Sakuraba, Kerr, Vovchanchyn, F Shamrock, etc as GOATs from the previous era.

The glaring problem woth your argument is that all the UFC contemporaries got washed at the same time so its pretty clear that age & mileage made the difference. The the top guys from the late pride era started losing within a year or 2 of each other UFC & Pride.

Also the HW era from 2001-2009ish is only matched by the one right after 2010-2015 inwhich Stipe came at the very end when everyone was shop worn and retiring

 

[Pitier of Fools]

Jon jones is the greatest
there is no discussion/debate to be had.

a way better debate
would be whose the second & third best..... and id go Anderson silva but could understand
if someone picked fedor/gsp.. but its Jon jones and its not even close..

You saying there's no debate doesn't make it so.

Most people don't have a multiple time PED cheat as the GOAT.

Or someone who got thrashed by Dominick Reyes.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

The glaring problem woth your argument is that all the UFC contemporaries got washed at the same time so its pretty clear that age & mileage made the difference. The the top guys from the late pride era started losing within a year or 2 of each other UFC & Pride.

Also the HW era from 2001-2009ish is only matched by the one right after 2010-2015 inwhich Stipe came at the very end when everyone was shop worn and retiring

I agree.

But the discrepancy in how they look i don't think can only be attributed to age. Fedor and Wanderlei in PRIDE seem to me to be head to head the best fighters I've seen.

But I can't ignore the so called evolution of the game and their results when they did end up fighting in US.

 

[FriskyRandy]

I didn't read your whole post mostly because you left out Khabib in all your little categories. He deserves a spot in at least one

How would you have known that if you didn't read the entire post.

 

[FriskyRandy]

To me GSP is clearly #1.
Fedor is a clear #2.

Jones is clearly a steroid cheat so can't be counted. No sports consider steroid cheaters great.

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

How bout this question....if someone was going to attack you and take your life....which fighter would you choose to defend your life?

 

[DOMMA]

Retarded post.

I'll repost this again everytime this moronic argument comes up:

Cain and JDS were basically done as top guys right after they turned 30 lol.
Brock ran away from the sport in his early 30s with barely any fights.

All 3 with FAR less fight mileage than CC.

UFC HW Champs:
Rizzo: Never had a top win after 2005/06. Done by age 33.
Ricco: Done fighting at top level in 2003. Hung on for a few years losing to anyone relevant. Totally done by age ~33.
Mir: Last time he was at all relevant and had top wins was in 2012. 33 years of age.
Randleman: Last top win at age 32.
Arlovski: Left the UFC and got brutally "exposed". Done as a top guy by 2011 at age ~31.
Sylvia: Done as a top guy after 2008, at age 32.
Bork: Last win at age 33.
JDS: Basically done as a top guy by age 31, in 2015. Clearly washed by 2017, at age 33. Hobbled on vs mostly irrelevant guys after.
Cain: Done after 2013, at age 31. Hardly fought after period.

Wow, look @ all these UFC champs who somehow either washed out, started "sucking", or clearly were past it in their early 30s!
You could say the same of quite a few PRIDE HW fighters as well, to be fair.

HW MMA has failed to attract enough new, young talent since the 2000s, and this became very evident post 2010 as the average age of the division started creeping up. Hint, that is not a sign it got better.

Also- Fedor lost to top guys who were all on PEDs.
Apparently its better to get your ass beat in the middle of your career by Matt Serra or Takase than to top fighters at the end lmao.

Ignorant post. You listed a few fighters that did not perform well after 30 but failed to mention the majority that did do well after 30. The average age of a UFC champion is 33 years old....the age Fedor lost 3 consecutive fights to two average fighters and a 185er.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

I find GOAt talk ridiculous in a sport that's only 30 years old.


MMA hasn't had its GOAT yet

 

[WokeWarrior]

Agreed, and Cormier deserves an honorable mention as well.

I still think he would get creamed if he actually fought several top ten heavyweights and that he also would have even at his peak... but as careers stand Jones is obviously number 1 and it isn't close.

i will always stand on this that Jon jones DC and Anthony rumble johnson are the 3 best p4p trifectas in the light heavyweight division.
theres no Light heavy weight fighter Past or present that can beat any of those 3 in their primes.. DC is the second greatest LHW and is top 10 GOAT.
DC would of ruled both weight classes if not for Jon jones. and if Dc didnt exist and jones moved up earlier Rumble would have DOMINATED that division .
as for the hate Look jon jones isnt perfect but you got to know what type of fanbase the ufc community consist of. so who cares. TIME WILL TELL.
and yall can glaze tom aspinall all you want but i doubt hes here in the next 3 years

You saying there's no debate doesn't make it so.

Most people don't have a multiple time PED cheat as the GOAT.

Or someone who got thrashed by Dominick Reyes.

where is Dominick reyes and where is jon jones at now....
BAM nuff said.

 

[JonnyBonesPharmacist]

I'm good with list A.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

Regardless of how you parse out the criteria....GSP wins all GOAT talks. Fedor was beat in his prime multiple times, once by Hendo who fought at 185. If PEDS are not considered it goes like this:

1. GSP
2. Jones
3. Silva
4. Fedor

If PEDS are considered, then:

1. GSP
2. Fedor
3 - 5 debatable.

So Fedors prime was when he lost a bunch of times, at the end of his career after going undefeated for 10 years? got it.

You can rate gsp as #1, no harm in that, he was a great fighter, can't disagree with your opinion.

No reason to make up stupid shit though.

Would you consider Anderson Silvas, Muhammad Alis, Mike Tysons, and BJ Penns prime also at the end of their careers also when they started losing?

 

[Pitier of Fools]

where is Dominick reyes and where is jon jones at now....
BAM nuff said.

Exactly. You're killing your own case. Your GOAT got beat by a scrub.

 

[BowserJr]

Fedor was 34 years old - prime age for HW, when he was beat 3 consecutive times, times by less than stellar competition. This negates any/all GOAT talk.
View attachment 1077307
This is a fact ^^^^^.

"GSP is not a fighters fighter so he is no where on the GOAT fighters list" is your opinion and is not based on anything other than your opinion.....which essentially means nothing.....to anybody. Sorry if this hurts your feelings.

Sorry you don't comprehend simple English. I named multiple categories and differentiated them because everyone argues on different premises.

Also Fedor already had 30+ fights at 34 yrs old. Anyone who actually watches combat sports or any sports knows that wear and tear is a thing. The fact that you don't understand that means your opinion is meaningless

 

[BowserJr]

Jon jones is the greatest
there is no discussion/debate to be had.

a way better debate
would be whose the second & third best..... and id go Anderson silva but could understand
if someone picked fedor/gsp.. but its Jon jones and its not even close..

pretty clear you didn't read the op

He is GOAT competitor no doubt. There is a reason he is not goat fighter or martial artist. He doesn't even factor in there.