Elections Elizabeth Warren likely is running for President

[TheComebackKid]

I mean in terms of his character and personal behavior and background. I agree that the Iraq war and Libya intervention are both worse than anything Trump has done so far foreign policy wise, in fact I'm glad he's pulling out troops from Syria and Afghanistan.

What has he done domestically that is worse than those things?

 

[Islam Imamate]

What has he done domestically that is worse than those things?

I'm against his tax bill but that's not even what I'm talking about, I'm talking about his public behavior and stunts. Do you deny he's far more crass and vulgar than Obama and the Clintons are in public?

 

[AlexDB9]

Right so you think she's a liar but based off of what? If she was actually lying don't you think she would have avoided the test? Her behavior doesn't seem consistent with the idea that she was consciously lying about her background.

I mean in terms of his character and personal behavior and background. I agree that the Iraq war and Libya intervention are both worse than anything Trump has done so far foreign policy wise, in fact I'm glad he's pulling out troops from Syria and Afghanistan.

.....like I said she’s a liar based off the results of her DNA test, can’t make it any more clear. I also think she wanted to make that Pocahontas name go away so bad she played herself releasing information that she thought would be upheld by her base and media. Now she’s playing it off like it never happened

 

[TheComebackKid]

I'm against his tax bill but that's not even what I'm talking about, I'm talking about his public behavior and stunts. Do you deny he's far more crass and vulgar than Obama and the Clintons are in public?

Oh for sure. I agree with that. Which do you value more... public behavior or policy?

 

[AlexDB9]

It didn’t backfire with anyone who wasn’t already a Trump supporter. That’s the point. That’s the only voters who give a shit about this nothing burger and they were never voting for her anyways. As you see in this thread where they are contorting to make it seem like a legit campaign issue when all these real lies and legit crimes Trump committed they have been downplaying for years.

I don’t think it will only be only Trump supporters who will use this against her. I think her fellow candidates will use this against her eventually, not in a crass manner like you’d expect from the right maybe but they will use it. Again though just my opinion

 

[Islam Imamate]

Oh for sure. I agree with that. Which do you value more... public behavior or policy?

Policy which is why I don't care about the Pocahontas stuff but that's what this thread has become about because its being claimed that it will sink her campaign despite having nothing to do with policy. I think there's truth to that because as I said, despite being a nothingburger everyone else is held to account for such stunts in a way that Trump just isn't for some reason.

 

[Islam Imamate]

.....like I said she’s a liar based off the results of her DNA test, can’t make it any more clear. I also think she wanted to make that Pocahontas name go away so bad she played herself releasing information that she thought would be upheld by her base and media. Now she’s playing it off like it never happened

But that doesn't prove she's lying, she could've sincerely believed she was Native until she got the tests done. Many people are shocked by their DNA tests results, Warren would hardly be the first. You're essentially jumping to the least charitable conclusion, something I'd doubt you'd do for Trump despite the fact he has a deeper history of proven hypocrisy and lying than she does.

 

[AlexDB9]

But that doesn't prove she's lying, she could've sincerely believed she was Native until she got the tests done. Many people are shocked by their DNA tests results, Warren would hardly be the first. You're essentially jumping to the least charitable conclusion, something I'd doubt you'd do for Trump despite the fact he has a deeper history of proven hypocrisy and lying than she does.

Once again I disagree with you, in my opinion she was lying. Just doesn’t add up for me. I think we can leave it at that for now cause I don’t have anymore time to discuss this right now

 

[Islam Imamate]

I won't go that far. I don't like Trump but this ruined any support I would have for Warren as now I do not find her trustworthy. It's one thing to say the context of the accusations have been blown out of proportion. They have. It's another to pretend like she didn't know what she was doing. She did.

She is not Native American, she is a white female. Nothing about her is even remotely Native American. If I hear stories about old people or do a DNA test proving I have one ancestor in the 1700s that was Native American it doesn't mean I should be advertising myself as Native American. I shouldn't be using it as a part of my brand to all the relevant institutions involved in my future and current career over decades. Because I would be smart enough to know that I am not Native American, even if I potentially have a fragment of it in my genetics. To advertise yourself as Native American in any significant manner when you are obviously not is to score potential points that benefit your future and your growth. The most she should have done in her case was mention it in passing to close friends and whatnot, but she went far, far, far beyond that.

In conclusion, I can't trust her or be sure what she is capable of going forward. What else would she be manipulative about? Not buying her "I was so innocent I never wanted any gain and never knew they published stories about my heritage" in comparison to her blatant self promotion of her "heritage" itself. Sometimes it is just that straightforward.

I think that's being intentionally uncharitable in viewing the situation, to me it seems clear she just took her parents and relatives at their word about her Native ancestry and internalized it as part of her identity.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Once again I disagree with you, in my opinion she was lying. Just doesn’t add up for me. I think we can leave it at that for now cause I don’t have anymore time to discuss this right now

It just seems like you jump to the most uncharitable conclusion, likely because she's a Democrat.

 

[AlexDB9]

It just seems like you jump to the most uncharitable conclusion, likely because she's a Democrat.

What should say I’m a centrist blah blah blah? I pass judgement on everyone in politics, I also trust no one in politics. I’ve shit on Trump a lot particularly his Saudi friends. Fact is though Trump gets shit done more often than not. That’s more than I can say for most politicians. Yet this was simply a discussion about why her Pocahontas thing would be used against her by anyone she faces off with.

 

[kpt018]

I think you're implying something false by modifying "correct." She was simply vindicated. I don't think she anticipated the goalpost moving, and I don't blame her for thinking that her opponents were better people than they turned out to be. YMMV.

I agree with everything you're saying in here but if she really was surprised she's being very naive. If she's going to win the presidency she better understand that her opponents are exactly as shitty and immoral as she can imagine.

I don't know shit about political strategy and I certainly think this whole NA thing is a bogus issue but if you're right here she had a brain fart. It's quite obvious that her opponents are not better people than they turned out to be.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

There is something though. She didn't just claim it 30 years ago. After the test she claimed she was right and that Trump owed her 1 million to her charity of choice. Do you understand how silly she is going to look if during national debates she keeps on pretending that having less native american in you than the average american makes you native american? It's going to make her look like she's fucking crazy.

The minute she got the test results she should have come out and said she made a mistake and was wrong. That she believed her mother's stories and her mother was clearly wrong. Everyone could at least understand that story but coming out and saying "I proved I was Native American" is not going to go over well. We all know it's going to be the first thing Trump brings up.

It's not going to go over well with right wingers that would never consider voting for her and are just itching to find something to shit on her for.

Fence sitters and independents aren't going to give a shit. Hillary's real or supposed ties to Wall Street, Saudi Arabia, Soros, her emails, her being questioned in congress for 12 hours (or however long it was), her role in Beghazi, were about 1,000 times more serious than Warren relying on a technicality to win a damn twitter bet.

Hell, even Obama's "palling around with terrorists" had more legitimacy. Bill Ayers really was part of a domestic terrorist group in the 70s and Obama did have some contact with him decades later. No one cared except the far right.

 

[kpt018]

No one is that dumb. Her, her parents, they are white. A white household with a white culture. If they tell stories about great grandma cherokee indian whoever that's amazing, but it still doesn't make you Native American. Not on a level where you add it to your brand to all relevant parties and institutions. I shouldn't start saying I am hispanic at work because great uncle Jose may have been according to my dad. If you say it in passing or to friends in conversation that's one thing, but if you are advertising yourself as Native American on any relevant level because you think you have an ancestor, and claim to never have once known it was referenced in any way after the fact to all the relevant parties you yourself promoted it too, that sounds incredibly dubious.

Either she is incredibly stupid and naive, or she purposely overplayed her "heritage" to potentially boost her opportunities. Whichever it was points me towards a different candidate. We have enough stupid and/or manipulative people around. No need to add one more.

Man, posts like this are really depressing. I like your posting and it looks like you're thinking through stuff but this shows that bogus hit campaigns actually work. And they don't only work on dummies and people who hold heavy biases but guys like you.

 

[sickc0d3r]

ITo advertise yourself as Native American in any significant manner when you are obviously not is to score potential points that benefit your future and your growth. The most she should have done in her case was mention it in passing to close friends and whatnot, but she went far, far, far beyond that.

In conclusion, I can't trust her or be sure what she is capable of going forward. What else would she be manipulative about? Not buying her "I was so innocent I never wanted any gain and never knew they published stories about my heritage" in comparison to her blatant self promotion of her "heritage" itself. Sometimes it is just that straightforward.

What self promotion of her heritage is she guilty of?
25 years ago she listed herself as NA in her work directory for a few years and then stopped. Years before that she contributed recipes to her cousin's local, hometown family cookbook (btw, a family NA cookbook backs her claim of it being common family knowledge). Seems like a very long time ago she figured out it wasn't cool to go around calling herself NA based on family lore, which is why she corrected herself and stopped making the claim.

 

[Islam Imamate]

No one is that dumb. Her, her parents, they are white. A white household with a white culture. If they tell stories about great grandma cherokee indian whoever that's amazing, but it still doesn't make you Native American. Not on a level where you add it to your brand to all relevant parties and institutions. I shouldn't start saying I am hispanic at work because great uncle Jose may have been according to my dad. If you say it in passing or to friends in conversation that's one thing, but if you are advertising yourself as Native American on any relevant level because you think you have an ancestor, and claim to never have once known it was referenced in any way after the fact, that sounds incredibly dubious.

Either she is incredibly stupid and naive, or she purposely overplayed her "heritage" to potentially boost her opportunities. Whichever it was points me towards a different candidate. We have enough stupid and/or manipulative people around. No need to add one more.

A lot of people claim Native ancestry based on some distant relative, its something I heard a lot growing up. Might not be right but that doesn't mean they don't sincerely believe it.

What should say I’m a centrist blah blah blah? I pass judgement on everyone in politics, I also trust no one in politics. I’ve shit on Trump a lot particularly his Saudi friends. Fact is though Trump gets shit done more often than not. That’s more than I can say for most politicians. Yet this was simply a discussion about why her Pocahontas thing would be used against her by anyone she faces off with.

Not really, he controlled the House and Senate and all he got done was a tax cut for the rich and a government shutdown. If I was uncharitable like you and others are being with Warren I'd accuse you of lying but I don't think you are as I don't think Warren is.

 

[shockaholic12]

No one is that dumb. Her, her parents, they are white. A white household with a white culture. If they tell stories about great grandma cherokee indian whoever that's amazing, but it still doesn't make you Native American. Not on a level where you add it to your brand to all relevant parties and institutions. I shouldn't start saying I am hispanic at work because great uncle Jose may have been according to my dad. If you say it in passing or to friends in conversation that's one thing, but if you are advertising yourself as Native American on any relevant level because you think you have an ancestor, and claim to never have once known it was referenced in any way after the fact to all the relevant parties you yourself promoted it too, that sounds incredibly dubious.

Either she is incredibly stupid and naive, or she purposely overplayed her "heritage" to potentially boost her opportunities. Whichever it was points me towards a different candidate. We have enough stupid and/or manipulative people around. No need to add one more.

People in the states constantly, constanlty identify as Italian or Irish, etc because of a distant relative they were told about. Not unusual at all and not something to overreact about.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yea me too. I knew a guy who was somewhat Native American. But I think there's a difference there. In Warren's case, I'd have to be inclined to believe that she believed she was Native American to a significant extent, found out she wasn't, never knew it was referenced in regards to her, and then is the victim of a cruel attack. I agree with the last part about the attack being overdone, but not the rest.

Why not though? Seems very believable that she took her parent's word for it and really believed it.

 

[kpt018]

What do you mean? Do you think that she really believed she was significantly Native American, and then realized she wasn't? I dunno man that sounds incredibly naive. Looks aren't everything, but I think one look in the mirror would show that she is merely a tiny fraction at best.

I think she was told by her family that she had a NA ancestor and when she took a DNA test it turned out to be true. It's a total non-issue and the stuff we're seeing are hit campaigns designed to damage her credibility.

The fact is her character is impeccable, she's highly intelligent, well educated, experienced, respected for her public service as well as an educator and is, as far as we can tell, as moral as a person can be (not just as a politician but anyone). I would like to see her win or lose on the merits of her campaign and policy views. It would be a tragedy to see someone so well qualified get knocked off because enough people believed the bullshit hit campaign against her. The fact is she is so strong a candidate that her opponents are looking to snipe her on this stupid bullshit and I'd hate to see it work.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Nope.
But most of the anti Black and Anti Mexican/Native racists gravitate towards the right.
Dem voters would undoubtedly have its own racists, but I would say they are more likely to be Hispanics and other recent immigrants, and not gentile Whites.

And yet Trump was a democrat until Obama became the nominee and the whole Birther movement started among Hillary supporters. Doesn't that at least show that white racists have been in the democratic party a lot longer then you guys always claim? (perhaps even a few still left)