Eddie Alvarez as champ

You guys know he'd already had an extensive career by the time he even got to the UFC right? Because it doesn't seem like it.
 
Ironnik94 said:
He's underrated for sure, though i am not that knowledgeable on him (i know you are, though!).

So thanks for the info - he's got really nice boxing, certainly when it comes to hooks.
I like body work, it is still underused, in theory, going to the body should make you very prone to getting knocked super hard in the head, but just like jumping knees allegedly being the bane of wrestlers: when does it ever happen, as opposed to body work/takedowns being super effective and without major drawbacks, you know?
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TBH I don't think I'm particularly knowledgeable on Alvarez, It's just that most people only have watched his UFC run, and so they have missed out on his Bellator and Dream runs. So most people only know Alvarez for getting destroyed by Conor, when they should know him for his wars with Chandler and his pre UFC career etc. He was out of his prime when he came into the UFC by a decent margin, same with Chandler right now, who is about 6 years out of prime. I haven't even watched all of his Dream fights, so I'm probably not the best judge of his career as a whole compared to people who were following MMA in 2005 - and actually saw him fight live in that era. I have watched more of him than most people on Sherdog, but not as much as some people.

Yeah, his boxing was interesting. He had great defensive footwork, probably the best at LW. That's why I always wanted to see him vs Khabib, because if there is one thing Alvarez is good at, it's avoiding being backed up to the cage, and his defensive wrestling and cardio are both top tier. He was never a great long range striker, and he was best when he wasn't the guy coming forward.

Yeah, you make a very good point with body work. In theory a lot of it is rather risky, especially in MMA where knees and kicks are a thing. But we rarely see that theory actually play out in practice. MMA fighters as a whole seem rather perplexed when their opponent starts attacking their body, and things like counter knees and jumping knees are extremely hard to time, and if you fuck it up its easy to punish the attempt, whether with a takedown or more bodywork.
 
One of the only guys to win titles in basically all the major orgs including UFC.

For some reason UFC champs don't fair well outside ufc and champs from other major orgs dont fair well in ufc.

Eddie, Shogun and Big Nog are the only ones that come to mind that did it

Long list of great fighters that won belts in UFC or Pride or Bellator or Strikeforce and competed in both UFC and the other but didn't win both UFC and the other
Iceman
Hendo
Bendo
Busta
Vitor
Wand
Rampage
Overeem
Arlovski
Werdum
Rory Mcdonald
Mousasi
Bader
Phil Davis
Gilbert Melendez
Shields
Nick Diaz
Anderson
Gomi
Pulver
Machida
 
Adamant said:
I always enjoyed Alvarez in Bellator. I was disappointed in his UFC run. Not because he didn't win as much, but because UFC never really seemed to care about him.
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How so? He got a title shot under his first contract, then went 1-2-1 and washed out.
 
He was a top 5 MMA LW fighter of all time. Winning belts in EVERY organization he's been in except the current organization he's in. You can't deny his resume.

Then Khabib came around.

And now he's a top 6 LW of all time.

(Anyone that says Porier, Gaethje, McGregor or Islam has a better career than Eddie Alvarez is a UFC fan and not a MMA fan)
 
G10 said:
This. Eddie gets way too much undeserved hate. Let's not forget that he handed both Chandler's and Gaethje's first losses, he finished RDA in the first round when many (myself included) thought RDA would rule the division, and he has victories over champions from almost every major organization in the world, most of whom were in their competitive prime when he beat them.

The Conor loss was bad, but almost every fighter with a long enough career at the highest levels has at least one, including most of the GOATs. Fedor, GSP, Andy Silva, and many more have losses even more embarassing than Eddie's. Unfortunately, Eddie's loss to Conor had more eyeballs on it than almost any other fight in history, so his just looks worse in comparison.
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I don’t think GSP or Anderson have more embarrassing losses than Eddie’s title defence against Conor, personally. The gulf in class in the stand up during that fight was like nothing I’d seen before at title fight level anyway. Maybe Rich Franklin’s losses to Anderson a close second?

Shoutout to @Chael_Sonnen for the insightful breakdown into Alvarez history / background outside of the UFC. I’m going to make a conscious effort to watch more tape on Eddie and his pre UFC career.
 
He's a great fighter, but he has had questionable boring decisions wins (pettis, melendez) and he lost to Cowboy for goodness sakes. What top LW loses to Cowboy? No disrespect to Cowboy, but Cowboy is a guy who chokes in big fights and losses to the best.

On top of that he has committed big fouls in fights (both Dustin fights, the Yuri fight). Not saying he is a dirty fighter, but those fouls affected the results of the fight. It cost him the Yuri fight.

The Conor fight did hurt him, but like I said before it was a bad stylistic matchup. The RDA fight was good, but it was reported that RDA was passed out prior to the fight in the bathtub for like 3 full minutes. RDA should not have gone out there to fight that night.

His win over Gaethje was very good. I would say it's his best performance in the UFC.

He's still a great warrior and a great fighter. And he has fought a lot of the best and beaten some of the best. I do rank him in the top 5-7 LW's of all time. But this notion that if he wins another belt in ONE makes him the LW GOAT is laughable. It's like a pro athlete stepping down from the big leagues because he can no longer keep up and doing well in the minor leagues.
 
Antix said:
I don’t think GSP or Anderson have more embarrassing losses than Eddie’s title defence against Conor, personally. The gulf in class in the stand up during that fight was like nothing I’d seen before at title fight level anyway. Maybe Rich Franklin’s losses to Anderson a close second?

Shoutout to @Chael_Sonnen for the insightful breakdown into Alvarez history / background outside of the UFC. I’m going to make a conscious effort to watch more tape on Eddie and his pre UFC career.
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Of course it's debatable, but I think Anderson's first loss to Weidman was far more embarassing. Andy was supposed to be the best striker in the UFC, and he got KOed by a wrestler who, by that time, had relatively horrible striking. The fact he got finished while trying to showboat made it even more funny.

As for GSP, Sherdoggers TO THIS DAY bring up his loss to Serra, a blown-up LW and jiu-jitsu guy, by TKO. I can't count the number of times I've read a GSP related post where someone mentions "tapped to strikes."

Fedor had the Hendo knockout, Cain will always be mocked with the "sea-level" description, the list goes on. At least with Eddie, he can say that he got finished by strikes from someone known as a powerful striker. Plus, the only way you can say it was truly embarassing is if you downplay Conor's skills; I've been a Conor hater ever since his fight with Brandao, but even I can't deny that he was extremely dangerous in the first 1-2 rounds, and Eddie has been a notoriously slow starter throughout his whole career.

Lastly, kudos for watching some of his earlier fights! Eddie's wars with Kawajiri, Joachim Hansen, and Michael Chandler were all great fights. You won't be disappointed.
 
Eddie's bout with Hansen is one of the best fights I've ever seen. His whole Dream run is full on action and great actually.
 
Eddie is probably a top 5 all time LW. His best yrs were pre UFC run and he still managed to capture the belt
 
G10 said:
Of course it's debatable, but I think Anderson's first loss to Weidman was far more embarassing. Andy was supposed to be the best striker in the UFC, and he got KOed by a wrestler who, by that time, had relatively horrible striking. The fact he got finished while trying to showboat made it even more funny.

As for GSP, Sherdoggers TO THIS DAY bring up his loss to Serra, a blown-up LW and jiu-jitsu guy, by TKO. I can't count the number of times I've read a GSP related post where someone mentions "tapped to strikes."

Fedor had the Hendo knockout, Cain will always be mocked with the "sea-level" description, the list goes on. At least with Eddie, he can say that he got finished by strikes from someone known as a powerful striker. Plus, the only way you can say it was truly embarassing is if you downplay Conor's skills; I've been a Conor hater ever since his fight with Brandao, but even I can't deny that he was extremely dangerous in the first 1-2 rounds, and Eddie has been a notoriously slow starter throughout his whole career.

Lastly, kudos for watching some of his earlier fights! Eddie's wars with Kawajiri, Joachim Hansen, and Michael Chandler were all great fights. You won't be disappointed.
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You make good points with those examples, Silva x Weidman I think people consider a stupid mistake / decision to showboat which cost him. Plus he’d been champion for forever by the time this happened. Meanwhile Eddie has only just bagged the UFC belt and was dispatched by Mcgregor, not because he was showboating but because his striking was leagues below Mcgregor’s to a point it almost seemed comical at the time.

GSP tapping to strikes against Serra is valid one though, you’re right that gets mentioned by someone in a GSP thread. I’ve always been mixed in it because in some ways if you’re getting beat and think you’re done, why not take less damage and come back to fight another day.
 
Khabib Khanate said:
I don't agree with that, I think Conor was just a terrible match up for him. Eddie has never had a great chin and while he has okay defense, he can be there to be hit. Conor cracks so hard he can change the complexion of a fight with one shot.
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We got mod-on-mod violence brewing in here, folks
 
Eddie's probably a Top 10 All-Time lightweight.

He definitely should've lost that second Chandler fight on the scorecards, and the RDA win feels a little flukey given RDA collapsed from his weight cut the day before (which explains his one-time chinniness for that fight), but Eddie could give almost any LW in the world the fight of their lives when the dog came out.
 
Imagine having enough interest in MMA to seek out and register on an MMA discussion forum, yet knowing nothing about Eddie Alvarez.
 
He's a lot better than that fight showed, it was just a bad style match up vs Conor on top of his game. Eddie is a great fighter and top 5 all time at LW.
 
PunchyMcSplodo said:
Eddie's probably a Top 10 All-Time lightweight.

He definitely should've lost that second Chandler fight on the scorecards, and the RDA win feels a little flukey given RDA collapsed from his weight cut the day before (which explains his one-time chinniness for that fight), but Eddie could give almost any LW in the world the fight of their lives when the dog came out.
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I agree that Chandler probably won that one 3-2, but I also loved Pride method of scoring, and given how Eddie practically beat Michael to death just before the final bell, I was happy that he took the victory. An all time great fight within the sport.
 
Adamant said:
I always enjoyed Alvarez in Bellator. I was disappointed in his UFC run. Not because he didn't win as much, but because UFC never really seemed to care about him.
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They matched him up with Pettis, Cowboy, Gaethje and Poirier, as well as granting him a shot at the title, so I'd disagree with that notion.
 
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