Duterte Harry, Part 1: The rise of Duterte & the shifting sociopolitical climate in the Philippines.

[Rod1]

May be you should do what I did and stop wasting your time, @Rod1 .

The bare minimum requirement for a meaningful debate is that everyone at the table must have a decent grasp on logic and reasons, despite having different perspectives on the well-known subject matter.

If your guts already told you that someone in the WR is utterly detached from this reality, and their mind-numbing responses have all but confirmed your suspicion that their IQ is the same as their age, carrying on that meaningless discussion would be as fruitful as having an intense conversation with a wall.

There are many other posters in this thread, I'm absolutely sure you can find someone sane to debate with, rather than quoting the posts that makes you want to jab your own eyes.

I like Possum, he is a little dellusional about the third world though, i call them sheltered leftists, their heart is in the right place, they just need to see reality for themselves.

 

[ShinkanPo]

This election has been a disaster for human rights and free speech, celebrities left and right are using the Cybercrime law and Anti Libel laws to sue people who bash them on social media, any criticism are now deemed libelous.. freedom of speech in my country is fast dying.

 

[erhnamdjinn]

Yet they dont speak spanish, and plenty of native names, so i doubt it was as simple as forcing everyone to baptize.

alot of people used to speak Spanish we where colonized for 300 years. My grandparents and there folks spoke fluent Spanish, some of our base language has Spanish as a base or root.

 

[Toco]

hmm, the zero policy with criminals was interesting, but since like it seems he's a commie with chinese support (sure? that seems a bit unrealistic, i think), then its a whole different matter

 

[Possum Jenkins]

The US had already given independence to the Philippines, and are you that dense? do you think the Japanese just decided to pack and leave? they got kicked out thanks to the support Americans gave the filipinos.

Say whatever you want about American imperialism, hell, latin america has been fucked bad by the US, but when compared to other empires at a time? they were fucking tame in comparison.

China is not simply exercising economic imperialism, they are actually taking over the entire sea.

Yeah, the US "supported" the Philippines in the way any empire protects its colony. And no, political independence isn't the only type of independence. Cuba was "independent" pre-1959 but it was basically the US's bitch. The Philippines was/is in a similar boat (and much like Miami Cubans, the middle-class Filipino Americans here cannot handle the idea of their country not being subservient to the US)

And Korea was colonized and occupied by Japan while the rest of SE Asia was colonized by the US/West. Which would you rather live in?

But this is questioning "basic logic" or whatever.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

May be you should do what I did and stop wasting your time, @Rod1 .

The bare minimum requirement for a meaningful debate is that everyone at the table must have a decent grasp on logic and reasons, despite having different perspectives on the well-known subject matter.

If your guts already told you that someone in the WR is utterly detached from this reality, and their mind-numbing responses have all but confirmed your suspicion that their IQ is the same as their age, carrying on that meaningless discussion would be as fruitful as having an intense conversation with a wall.

There are many other posters in this thread, I'm absolutely sure you can find someone sane to debate with, rather than quoting the posts that makes you want to jab your own eyes.

I know, what kind of lunatic questions the perfectly sound logic of "the US left the Philippines better than it's ever been"?

The Philippines is the heaven that it is thanks to US investment therefore this must be continued. Your IQ must be in the single digits to not understand this, amirite?

 

[Rod1]

Yeah, the US "supported" the Philippines in the way any empire protects its colony. And no, political independence isn't the only type of independence. Cuba was "independent" pre-1959 but it was basically the US's bitch. The Philippines was/is in a similar boat (and much like Miami Cubans, the middle-class Filipino Americans here cannot handle the idea of their country not being subservient to the US)

And Korea was colonized and occupied by Japan while the rest of SE Asia was colonized by the US/West. Which would you rather live in?

But this is questioning "basic logic" or whatever.

I would rather be living in the philippines than in north korea.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I would rather be living in the philippines than in north korea.

Not anymore the Banana nose man pressident will make it Cambodia 2.0

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I would rather be living in the philippines than in north korea.

North Korea fucked up when it went on its own, obviously, but South Korea did great.

Please list the former US/Western colonies that are doing as well. Thanks.

 

[Rod1]

North Korea fucked up when it went on its own, obviously, but South Korea did great.

Please list the former US/Western colonies that are doing as well. Thanks.

North Korea was backed up by China, South Korea was backed up by the US.

Also lol at claiming that North Korean fuck ups are their own, that South Korean success is thanks to the japanese colonization and at the same time blame all the issues of other countries on their colonization.

So how does that work? why dont you explain to me how Japanese actually did the Koreans a favor and how the Korean peninsula would had been great if Americans hadnt gone to war to defend them.

 

[Arkain2K]

I like Possum, he is a little dellusional about the third world though, i call them sheltered leftists, their heart is in the right place, they just need to see reality for themselves.

Well, goodluck with that, buddy. I know a lost cause when I sees it though. You'd have an easier time convincing the leftist "Magnificent 12" - now widely known in the Philippines as the "Dirty Dozen" - that their perception of reality is warped.

Enjoy reading about this jubilant reunion, and don't forget to read all the comments below the article to see what Filipinos really think about them.

​

‘Fight not over’ 20 years after expulsion of US bases

Twenty years after the Senate vote to expel the US military bases from the country, nine senators meet for lunch at the Club Filipino on Friday to commemorate the historic event. Five of the nine present are, from left, Wigberto Tañada, Teofisto Guingona, Joseph Estrada, Victor Ziga and Ernesto Maceda. ​

They were called the “Magnificent 12”—or the “Dirty Dozen” by those who disagreed with what they did—but even after two decades the senators who voted to expel American military bases from the country in 1991 believe that was not the end of it.

“The fight is not over,” said former Vice President Teofisto Guingona Jr., pointing to continuing foreign intervention, from the supposed US attempts to interfere in the Mindanao conflict to a 50-year-old defense treaty with the United States that could supposedly exacerbate the Spratlys dispute with China.

And there is, of course, the unfinished business of the vexing Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA).

The 12, led by Guingona, Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile and deposed President Joseph Estrada, were honored in a commemorative lunch at Club Filipino Friday to mark the 20th anniversary of the historic 12-to-11 Senate vote that rejected the “Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Security” that would have retained US military presence in the country until 2001.

Estrada said the spirit of the antibases movement remained strong. If the Senate had not voted the way it did, “we would still retain the image that we’re not an independent, sovereign country,” he said.

“But we should be cautious. We shouldn’t stop being vigilant” against foreign intervention, said Estrada who left even before the program could start.

“We’re commemorating today an event that has almost receded from the memory of the nation, and that is when 12 Filipinos, sons of this nation, stood at the floor of the Senate to ‘write finish’ to the colonization of this country by foreign troops,” said Enrile.

“Although we came from different political paths, articulating different political views and voices, but at that particular hour, we collectively echoed the sentiment of Filipinos to unshackle ourselves from colonization by voting out the American bases,” he added.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/12677/‘fight-not-over’-20-years-after-expulsion-of-us-bases

 

[Arkain2K]

Without the US, local heroes will defend the Philippines
By Dr. Ariel Gener, MD

From left to right: Senators Victor Ziga, Aquilino Pimentel Jr. and Wigberto Tañada join rally outside the Senate after the chamber rejects the proposed bases treaty on Sept. 16, 1991​

I have good news and bad news.

First, the good news. While Obama may be screening his Blackberry’s caller ID and ignoring Malacanang’s desperate 9-1-1 calls, we have located brave and galant men and women who could be defending Scarborough Shoal.

No, it is not the US Navy’s storied Osama bin Laden-killing SEAL Team Six. Screw them! Not the legendary Delta Force, either. They can just shut the foxtrot. It is not even Chuck Norris, although he could single-handedly defeat the entire PLA (People’s Liberation Army) of China and still maintain a pair of perfectly-coiffed side-burns.

We don’t need these gringos. We have homegrown heroes. These patriots have unwavering belief that the Philippines does not need no stinkin’ help from GI Joe, nor Captain America, to defeat the Chinese, or any other invader of the Philippines.

Among these “Avengers” whom we hope will soon fight the Chinese Navy are: the 12 former Senators who made Yankee go home in 1992 – Agapito “Butz” Aquino, Joseph Estrada, Teofisto Guingona Jr,, Ernesto Maceda Jr, Orlando Mercado, Aquilino Pimentel Jr, Rene Saguisag, Jovito Salonga, Wigberto Tañada, Victor Ziga, and current Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile. They defeated 11 other senators who voted to retain Clark and Subic in September, 1991.

Sen. Sotero Laurel II is excused from deployment. He has passed away. You can add Satur Ocampo and everybody else who thought – and still thinks – the Philippines does NOT need American military firepower.

Professor Roland Simbulan might be willing to join them. He has always been an outspoken protester of US military presence in the country. He is not alone. In the Sept 16, 1991 issue of Bulatlat, he said, “The growth of the resistance mobilized against the proposed bases treaty is reflected in the fact that on Sept. 10, 1991, about 50,000 people marched against it as the Senate vote drew near. But six days after, on September 16, 1991, the number of protesters had swelled to 170,000 outside the Senate despite a heavy downpour.”

I suggest the Philippine military immediately gather and conscript into active duty these 170,000 patriots who demanded the ouster of the US bases. Surely, they are convinced they are capable of protecting “Inang Bayan” (Motherland). To find them, I recommend they start checking the US Embassy’s list of tourist, business and immigrant visa applicants. I remember seeing and meeting many of these “supposed anti-US bases heroes” in New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco, Chicago and San Diego where they now reside and worship their great gods – Dollar Lama and Moolah Omar.

The Philippines deserves to be defended by the “best of the very best” – so, let us send them to the front lines of Scarborough to face these Chinese aggressors. I am sure the megaphones they used to wield in front of the US Embassy on Roxas Blvd countless times can outgun the Chinese warships’ massive 15-inch guns, their angry banners can take down Foxbat fighter planes the Chinese has reportedly acquired from Russia, their placards can destroy China’s CJ-10 cruise missiles, their “Yankee Go Home”, “Down with US Capitalism, Imperialism” sloganeering are lethal against the Chinese Air Force’s 5,172 combat aircraft and their face masks made from tattered t-shirts can protect them from the incapacitating, neuron-melting nerve gas Russian scientists have shared with the PLA.

In addition to Prof Roland Simbulan, I further recommend that staunch anti-American nationalists, such as, Bayan Muna and Kilusang Mayo Uno (KMU) stalwart Satur Ocampo, and Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago be battlefield-promoted to Commanding Generals of the Western Philippine Sea, Chinese Resistance Weapons Division (We’rSCReWeD).

Satur Ocampo, as recently as April this year, led 4,000 protesters against the VFA (Visiting Forces Agreement) and the Balikatan Exercises in Mindanao. He “burned an American flag with anti-US imperialism messages,” according to Democratic Underground.com on their April 20, 2012 issue. That is 4,000 additional recruits for the Scarborough front line, which we can call Philippine Soldiers Heroically Protecting our Fishing District (PhiSHPFooD)

Sen Miriam Santiago, as Chairperson of the Congressional Legislative Oversight Committee on the VFA, (CaCaLOCo) suggested in 2009 to terminate the VFA – which allows for 700 US Special Operations soldiers to fight terrorists in Mindanao.

I applaud them.

Jack Nicholson, as US Marine Corps Col. Nathan Jessup in “A Few Good Men”, challenged US military haters – “I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the very blanket of freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said ‘thank you’, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand your post”.

Well, dear patriotic anti-US bases gentlemen and ladies, we stand proudly alongside you – curiously waiting for you to prove your ultimate belief in not needing Clark and Subic, the VFA, and all the Damn Yankee military in the Philippines. We are watching and waiting for you to pick up a weapon and stand your post at Scarborough. Stop hiding. Get back in the limelight and be our heroes.

And Good Luck, for this is the bad news – you are gonna NEED it.

(Note: Doc G, unlike most of these political armchair generals and Monday-morning quarterbacks, has seen actual combat and deployed in the Middle East, Persian Gulf and Africa. He also has genuine Philippine revolutionary blood in his veins from his mother’s side, being a great grandson of “revolucionario” Gen. Francisco “Kiko” Carreon – Vice President of the ‘real’ first Philippine Republic, and right hand man of President Gen. Macario Sakay. Despite his anti-American family lineage, Dr Gener has for the past 20 years believed that ejecting Clark and Subic may have been the biggest diplomatic, economic and military blunder of Philippine politicians in the 20th century).

http://globalbalita.com/2012/05/10/without-the-us-local-heroes-will-defend-the-philippines/

 

[Possum Jenkins]

North Korea was backed up by China, South Korea was backed up by the US.

Also lol at claiming that North Korean fuck ups are their own, that South Korean success is thanks to the japanese colonization and at the same time blame all the issues of other countries on their colonization.

So how does that work? why dont you explain to me how Japanese actually did the Koreans a favor and how the Korean peninsula would had been great if Americans hadnt gone to war to defend them.

Except I never said or implied that Japanese imperialism was good or benevolent. So this talk of "favors" or "thanks" is inaccurate. There is NO imperialism that's good, (that's the lunatic leftist in me) and all countries are better off being free from domination.

But we're comparing things that actually did happen. One is being colonized by the US, the other is being colonized by Japan. Here's how Korea's economy was affected by Japanese occupation:

http://www.asj.upd.edu.ph/mediabox/...e-colonialism-korean-economic-development.pdf

They created roads, created modern economic structures. Obviously they were still an occupying colonizer so they constrained Korea's full development, but this infrastructure in place helped them make their incredible turnaround starting in the 60s. (Notice I said "helped", not "caused." Obviously the Korean people's own efforts are mostly responsible for this.)

Still waiting on one former US/Western colony that's doing well, by the way.

 

[Gregolian]

I love that they can wear polo shirts during public appearances/speeches cause of the heat.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Well, goodluck with that, buddy. I know a lost cause when I sees it though.

Same here.

Marcos is #2 on the all-time most corrupt world leaders list-

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0921295.html

The US actively and openly supported him-

Marcos constantly - sometimes desperately - sought American approval. And for years, though he abused human rights and, with his wife, Imelda, plundered the country of billions of dollars, the United States coddled him for the sake of its Philippine bases.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/19/m...nes-setting-marcos-adrift.html?pagewanted=all

But the US "left the Philippines in the best shape it's ever been" and if you can't see that you're just a lunatic.

Sounds legit.

 

[Rod1]

Except I never said or implied that Japanese imperialism was good or benevolent. So this talk of "favors" or "thanks" is inaccurate. There is NO imperialism that's good, (that's the lunatic leftist in me) and all countries are better off being free from domination.

But we're comparing things that actually did happen. One is being colonized by the US, the other is being colonized by Japan. Here's how Korea's economy was affected by Japanese occupation:

http://www.asj.upd.edu.ph/mediabox/...e-colonialism-korean-economic-development.pdf

They created roads, created modern economic structures. Obviously they were still an occupying colonizer so they constrained Korea's full development, but this infrastructure in place helped them make their incredible turnaround starting in the 60s. (Notice I said "helped", not "caused." Obviously the Korean people's own efforts are mostly responsible for this.)

Still waiting on one former US/Western colony that's doing well, by the way.

Most infrastructure was in the north, South Korea was african levels of poverty after the Korean war.

Also your point that no imperialism is good is moot in this case, in the case of Philippines they are suffering Chinese imperialism due to the lack of presence of another power to stop them.

What about Singapore or Taiwan?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Most infrastructure was in the north, South Korea was african levels of poverty after the Korean war.

Also your point that no imperialism is good is moot in this case, in the case of Philippines they are suffering Chinese imperialism due to the lack of presence of another power to stop them.

What about Singapore or Taiwan?

I've never read of pre-division Korean infrastructure being concentrated on either region. This is not very likely seeing as how Seoul has historically been Korea's capital and main city. Please cite this.

And please explain the suffering that China is inflicting upon the Philippines. Is claiming a few islands (China) comparable to backing the 2nd most corrupt leader in world history and human rights abuser in Marcos (US)?

And Singapore is an invented city-state that only exists because the English and Dutch needed an administrative and business center for its colonies. It's basically a product of Western colonialism, not a victim of it. It's not an example of anything because it's such an anomaly.

Taiwan was also colonized by Japan. Similar story to Korea.

 

[Rod1]

I've never read of pre-division Korean infrastructure being concentrated on either region. This is not very likely seeing as how Seoul has historically been Korea's capital and main city. Please cite this.

And please explain the suffering that China is inflicting upon the Philippines. Is claiming a few islands (China) comparable to backing the 2nd most corrupt leader in world history and human rights abuser in Marcos (US)?

And Singapore is an invented city-state that only exists because the English and Dutch needed an administrative and business center for its colonies. It's basically a product of Western colonialism, not a victim of it. It's not an example of anything because it's such an anomaly.

Taiwan was also colonized by Japan. Similar story to Korea.

1.- Claiming a few islands? no, they are claiming the whole EEZ of philippines, they are literally taking away the most valuable natural resource of the philippines.

2.- As to Marcos, do you honestly think the Chinese or the Russians would had let the Philippines alone if there was not a US backed strongman? im not justifying US imperialism, im merely saying that by setting shop in the Philippines they protected them from imperialism for objectively worse countries.

3.- Singapore is invented now? well, their wealth isnt invented and they got it on their own.

4.- And Taiwan another product of the blessings of japanese militaristic expansion LOL.

5.- South Korea was poorer than fucking Congo in the 60s

After the Korean war, South Korea was one of the world's poorest countries with only $64 per capita income. Economically, in the 1960s it lagged behind the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) – currently holding elections marred by violence . Since then the country's fortunes have diverged spectacularly. South Korea now belongs to the rich man's club, the OECD development assistance committee (DAC). The DRC has gone backwards since independence and, out of 187 countries, ranked bottom in the 2011 Human Development Index.

The South was a rural area full of farmers ravaged by war and japanese imperialism and then by communist aggression.

 

[Arkain2K]

Philippines' cash-strapped cops cheer new crime-buster president
MANILA | By Karen Lema and Manuel Mogato
Fri May 13, 2016

Members of the Philippine National Police (PNP) Special Weapons And Tactics (SWAT) patrol along a main street of metro Manila in the Philippines May 12, 2016. ​

The police force in Manila is so underfunded that officers say they have to buy their own bullets and it is not uncommon for funeral service cars to give cops a lift along to murder scenes because they have no vehicles of their own.

Enter Rodrigo Duterte, who won this week's presidential election in the Philippines on a single-issue campaign of crushing crime, corruption and drug abuse. He has pledged to raise policing standards to the level of Davao, the once-lawless city in southern Mindanao, where he has been mayor for 22 years and the only one in the country that runs its own 911 emergency call service.

Duterte's message, unpolished and peppered with profanities, tapped into popular alarm over a drug-fuelled jump in crime. In 2012 the United Nations said the Philippines had the highest rate of methamphetamine, or "shabu", use in East Asia. The U.S. State Department said 2.1 percent of Flipinos aged 16 to 64 were using shabu, the main drug threat in the Philippines along with marijuana.

Reported crimes in the Philippines more than doubled from 319,441 cases in 2010, when President Benigno Aquino took office, to 675,816 last year, according to national police data. Roughly half of those were serious crimes, and rape cases jumped 120 percent over this period.

Police officials say the figures overstate the problem because reporting of crimes has risen with the introduction of closed-circuit TV cameras in many urban areas and SMS messaging for filing complaints.

Still, Duterte says he intends to be a 'dictator' against forces of evil. He told Reuters on the campaign trail five criminals should be killed a week and promised if he became president the fish in Manila Bay would grow fat on the bodies of all the "pushers, hold-up men and do-nothings" dumped there.

Rights group say death squads have operated with impunity in Davao, killing some 1,500 people since 1998. “Duterte Harry”, as he is known, denies ordering extrajudicial killings, but he doesn't condemn them.

STRETCHED POLICE FORCE

If the police station Reuters visited this week in the capital, Manila, is any measure, then Duterte has much to fix.

Captain Rommel Anicete, chief of the Manila police district's homicide division, told Reuters he and his men have been buying their own bullets since the 1990s.

They split the cost of getting two air-conditioners serviced and, while they do share a couple of aging computers, they are always short of paper for their printer and have no photocopier.

There aren't enough police cars to go around and Anicete said one colleague uses a motorbike to do his policing duties, paying for fuel and repairs out of his own pocket.

The Philippines had one police officer for every 651 people in 2012, according to official data. Its force is far more stretched across an archipelago than neighboring Thailand with a 1:302 ratio and Malaysia with 1:267 in the same year.

The government budgeted 88.1 billion pesos ($1.89 billion) for the police this year, up around 13 percent from 2015. A senior police official said it was still too little for the force of about 160,000 officers.

"We lack patrol cars and secure radios," said the official, who declined to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media. "We want to issue a gun for every police officer but those recruited after 2012 will have to wait a bit."

Like other police officers questioned for this story, he declined to say who he had voted for, but added: “Of course we like what we have heard so far from him.”

"CRIMINALS WILL BE AFRAID"

Duterte has promised to double police pay, which for some officers is as low as 18,000 Pesos ($390) a month. Asked on Wednesday how the government will fund this, Duterte spokesman Peter Lavina said: "We will find a way."

He added that a new detachment to fight drug crime would be set up, and corrupt officers would be fired from the force.

Duterte also wants to set up command centers for security cameras in cities around the country that are modeled on a state-of-the-art crime reporting hub in Davao City.

Roderick Tan, a sergeant in the Manila Police District's theft and robbery division, said he welcomed Duterte's assurances that he will shield the police from legal suits and the harassment of criminals or suspects complaining of injuries.

The incoming president has also made it clear that he is no friend of human rights groups and corruption watchdogs that investigate the police's battles against criminal gangs.

"That should boost police morale," said Anicete. "I think criminals will be afraid, especially those involved in drugs."


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-election-crime-idUSKCN0Y4003

 

[JDragon]

Police in Manila are so corrupt. I witnessed this on several accounts in not even 4 weeks when i was there, e.g.

1) cop got casual cash note from my mother in law for allowing her back in the airport to collect us
2) our triycle driver had no insurance or driver's license (I forgot what exactly) but it could be healed. ..

I imagine it is worse when foreigners are not around