Dumb myths about UFC HW division

[GOATtalks]

the problem mostly is that they gas easily and are risk averse. guys like Buday are 7-1 but it's fucking boring to watch a guy who looks like someone's dad hold another dude against a fence and pitter patter his love handles.

when the average casual thinks of HWs they think of animals. guys like Ubereem or Francis just besmirching the fuck out of their opponents. they don't want to see Martin Buday slap bellies for 25 minutes.

He have plenty of guys like Overeem and Francis besmirching their opponents. Just look at Aspinall, Pavlovich, Volkov or Gane.

Point fighting and boring fights happen in all divisions. Hell, Mario Bautista is one of the top contenders at BW and he fights the way you described. Only difference is that his childish body has less fat on it and someone like Buday could just throw him out of the cage, lol

 

[GOATtalks]

They would murder most of them. Of course, not if they were training like back then, but with all the modern benefits available to fighters today. Those guys were killers, not athletes.

Well, now you contradict yourself.

Usually the narrative is that PRIDE HW’s were better than HW’s today. Now you add, that of course if they would train with modern methods. That changes a lot. Of course Fedor, Nog and CroCop were talented fighters and if they trained today, they would’ve been even better than they were back in the day. But they also would’ve been fighting at LHW or maybe even MW. Probably they would’ve done good there, but I still don’t believe that they would’ve beaten guys like Aspinall, Gane, Volkov or even Pavlovich

 

[orca]

People talk about the stupidity of the 265lb limit at heavyweight. They're right, but also don't go far enough.

imo we don't even need a LHW division. Heavyweight and LHW should be merged into a single division.

fighters like tom or gane whos like 250 lbs are well over 265 off season
thats really unfair for 220 + lbs LHWs

its like saying WW and MW should be merged

but LHW and HW is even worse lool

 

[GOATtalks]

What you say is actually logical.

My problem with HW is most of them are boring as shit and there is hardly any activity.

Well, Jones fucked up the division a bit.l, but now that he’s gone the division is moving much faster. He already have-

Aspinall vs Gane
Volkov vs Almeida for the next shot
Pavlovich vs Waldo

None of those fights will be boring. Actually most of the top10 is booked and the ones who aren’t ( Blaydes, Spivac, Tybura, Lewis) fought recently.

You’re just parroting dumb narratives, that aren’t true at all

 

[World eater]

Well, now you contradict yourself.

Usually the narrative is that PRIDE HW’s were better than HW’s today. Now you add, that of course if they would train with modern methods. That changes a lot. Of course Fedor, Nog and CroCop were talented fighters and if they trained today, they would’ve been even better than they were back in the day. But they also would’ve been fighting at LHW or maybe even MW. Probably they would’ve done good there, but I still don’t believe that they would’ve beaten guys like Aspinall, Gane, Volkov or even Pavlovich

No contradiction. Like I said in the original post, today, they would not even be in the same weight class. HW was better back then as a whole, not necessarily individual HW fighters. Most of them were quite limited, That’s why comparing guys from different times makes no sense. Pele wouldn’t be able to keep up with some serie B team today, but he was still the top dog back then.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

He have plenty of guys like Overeem and Francis besmirching their opponents. Just look at Aspinall, Pavlovich, Volkov or Gane.

Point fighting and boring fights happen in all divisions. Hell, Mario Bautista is one of the top contenders at BW and he fights the way you described. Only difference is that his childish body has less fat on it and someone like Buday could just throw him out of the cage, lol

i'm not saying you can't be a good fighter while being boring, i'm saying that's why HWs on average nobody gives a fuck about. you say plenty of guys, but you named the only 4 guys doing the besmirching, and Gane and Volkov are more decision oriented fighters, they're not finishers the way Francis and Ubereem were. people want to see giants that try to knock people dead, plain and simple. historically, that was the whole allure of the division to begin with.

Mario Bautista might be a top contender at BW, but he makes my point, nobody gives a shit about him.

 

[188912345]

I don't think anyone says all HWs are fat and out of shape, but if we look at the unranked HWs, most of them are definitely not in good shape.

 

[Cletus Fertitta]

I dare any of these fat motherfuckers to run 3 miles under 30 minutes. In shape my ass.

 

[GOATtalks]

i'm not saying you can't be a good fighter while being boring, i'm saying that's why HWs on average nobody gives a fuck about. you say plenty of guys, but you named the only 4 guys doing the besmirching, and Gane and Volkov are more decision oriented fighters, they're not finishers the way Francis and Ubereem were. people want to see giants that try to knock people dead, plain and simple. historically, that was the whole allure of the division to begin with.

Mario Bautista might be a top contender at BW, but he makes my point, nobody gives a shit about him.

Ok, if you need the real list of besmirchers, here it is-

Aspinall, Pavlovich, Lewis, Teixera, Petrino.

 

[SuperAlly]

1. “They are all fat and out of shape”

That couldn’t be further from the truth. We have extremely athletic guys like Gane, Pavlovich and Almeida, who have absolutely ridiculous physiques. Guys like Aspinall, Volkov, Blaydes, Waldo and Lewis are all athletic and in good shape too. Even outside top15 we have guys like Lane, Usman, Petrino and Buchecha who are more than fit.

2. “Any elite athlete would’ve dominated UFC’s HW division”

We’ve had NFL players Hardy and Lane come to UFC, while still in their athletic peak and they flopped spectacularly even though they are elite level athletes. And NFL athletes are basically peak of athleticism.

3. “UFC doesn’t bring in talent from different combat sports, Gable Steveson would’ve wrecked UFC’s HW division”

Despaigne was a Olympic medalist in Taekwondo and a freak of nature, flopped in UFC.
Buchecha was one of the greatest HW BJJ practitioners and couldn’t even beat Martin Buday.
Seeing the struggles of Bo Nickal at MW, it’s ridiculous to assume someone like Gable would dominate UFC HW’s.

There’s levels to this shit

Right now it seems like Aspinall is far above anyone else at HW. And top contenders like Gane, Volkov, Pavlovich and Almeida are easily beating anyone outside top5, like Tybura or Budday. But even Tybura and Budday seem to be levels above just simply big athletic guys like Lane or Usman and above one dimensional specialists like Despaigne or Buchecha.

HW division is much better than he give them credit for, they would easily beat the champs of every division lower than MW. Aspinall might actually be the best HW we’ve ever seen. It’s ridiculous how we try to compare the guys to BW and FW and then say that they suck. Of course they can’t move like them, it’s just basic physics.

This is actually just PRIDE fanboy propaganda, discrediting every HW generation, so that they can still claim that those were the golden ages of HW MMA

Fair play, good post well supported with actual tangible evidence

Even if people don't agree fully, they should respect a well conducted argument.

Aspinall may well end up like Lennox Lewis was in boxing for much of his HW run - far better than all the competition because perhaps it is not a golden era, but doesn't mean individually the champ isn't absolutely shit hot

 

[GOATtalks]

Ahem!

View attachment 1106584

Wasup?

 

[SuperAlly]

The best heavyweight in the world fights for PFL...

Shit, when did Aspinall get cut?

 

[Captain Herb]

My problem with HW is most of them are boring as shit and there is hardly any activity.

A lot of activity when nothing ever happens is worse. I'd rather watch one round waiting for the KO than 5 rounds of combat dancing.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I've stopped trying to defend the heavyweight division -- folks just don't understand. Expecting heavyweights to fight like lightweights is like expecting a big rig truck to manuever like a Ferrari.

 

[Captain Herb]

People talk about the stupidity of the 265lb limit at heavyweight. They're right, but also don't go far enough.

imo we don't even need a LHW division. Heavyweight and LHW should be merged into a single division.

Historically that would make sense because the best HW were in the 230-240 lb neighborhood, where a lot of todays LHW walk around at. But just like athletic LHWs are getting bigger, so are athletic HW who now come in close to the limit. I would be in favor of removing the 265 limit and moving LHW to 220, and MW to 195

 

[GOATtalks]

I dare any of these fat motherfuckers to run 3 miles under 30 minutes. In shape my ass.

You’d be surprised

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

He have plenty of guys like Overeem and Francis besmirching their opponents. Just look at Aspinall, Pavlovich, Volkov or Gane.

Point fighting and boring fights happen in all divisions. Hell, Mario Bautista is one of the top contenders at BW and he fights the way you described. Only difference is that his childish body has less fat on it and someone like Buday could just throw him out of the cage, lol

Bautista has 4 UFC stoppage wins. He's point fighting vs the best BWs in the world not random hw 182636 from contender series win who goes 1-7 in the ufc like Buday is a big difference.

 

[DayV]

Well I kinda agree with on that. Fedor was an out of shape MW and CroCop and Nog were LHW’s at best. That’s why I don’t believe they would have success at HW today

Barnett, Herring, Alex Emelianenko, Arlovski, Schilt, Sylvia, Kharitonov... were big and skilled, and it did not help them to win.
Raw body size comes to emphasis a lot less in the ring than in the cage.
Would Cro Cop, Minotauro and Fedor be good at modern UFC fence pushing, walling, fence clinching angainst heavier guys, or chasing taller guys around in big circular octagon? Possibly not.

Could they beat top modern UFC HW stars in the ring and Pride rules, or in RIZIN today? Absolutley yes. With less space to move in the ring, with 4 corners and elastic ropes that allow lot less body to body clinching, restarts in the middle size becomes less important than in UFC.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Its not about shape, its about the skill level, many of the best HWs in MMA and boxing had a lot of body fat Fedor and Cormier and Cain were very dominant, Fury in boxing has been one of the top guys and champs for ages again with a lot of body fat. Its about their skill level and experience. Most of the UFC HWs have virtually no experience and they ain't got the skill and talent. A lot of the UFC HW fights are dreadful and its too easy to become a pro.

You see these so called athletes like Lane and Hardy you are talking about, lets go into their background of fighting, how many years were they competing in pro fighting before UFC signed them, how many wrestling matches have they had etc, there's just nothing there. You might as well put anyone in there.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

1. “They are all fat and out of shape”

That couldn’t be further from the truth. We have extremely athletic guys like Gane, Pavlovich and Almeida, who have absolutely ridiculous physiques. Guys like Aspinall, Volkov, Blaydes, Waldo and Lewis are all athletic and in good shape too. Even outside top15 we have guys like Lane, Usman, Petrino and Buchecha who are more than fit.

2. “Any elite athlete would’ve dominated UFC’s HW division”

We’ve had NFL players Hardy and Lane come to UFC, while still in their athletic peak and they flopped spectacularly even though they are elite level athletes. And NFL athletes are basically peak of athleticism.

3. “UFC doesn’t bring in talent from different combat sports, Gable Steveson would’ve wrecked UFC’s HW division”

Despaigne was a Olympic medalist in Taekwondo and a freak of nature, flopped in UFC.
Buchecha was one of the greatest HW BJJ practitioners and couldn’t even beat Martin Buday.
Seeing the struggles of Bo Nickal at MW, it’s ridiculous to assume someone like Gable would dominate UFC HW’s.

There’s levels to this shit

Right now it seems like Aspinall is far above anyone else at HW. And top contenders like Gane, Volkov, Pavlovich and Almeida are easily beating anyone outside top5, like Tybura or Budday. But even Tybura and Budday seem to be levels above just simply big athletic guys like Lane or Usman and above one dimensional specialists like Despaigne or Buchecha.

HW division is much better than he give them credit for, they would easily beat the champs of every division lower than MW. Aspinall might actually be the best HW we’ve ever seen. It’s ridiculous how we try to compare the guys to BW and FW and then say that they suck. Of course they can’t move like them, it’s just basic physics.

This is actually just PRIDE fanboy propaganda, discrediting every HW generation, so that they can still claim that those were the golden ages of HW MMA

1. In the current era, most are fat and out of shape. It's just a weak spot in the parabola, inevitably more units will join.

2. I've always found that to be a retarded argument. "Bro LeBron would be SHW champ!"
Meanwhile in reality:

Seeing that makes me think Bas Rutten would have exploded his head with an open palm strike

3. Gable probably has a glass jaw or doesn't like getting hit in the face, like 95% of people. Tom Aspinall could run through him, Usyk, and LeBron + Bronny handicap match all in the same night