Down with fake charities

[Islam Imamate]

I would agree with the general sentiment but churches and colleges being near the top of the list is really burying the lead here.

The list of groups/people gaming the system that are of higher priority is pretty big.

Here's a simpler one - Amazon paid $170 million in taxes on $16 Billion in profits. It was something like a 1.34% tax rate. And quite a few corporations are in similar boats. And this is after we cut the corporate tax rate. So, from my perspective, colleges and churches come far later in the system.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...federal-taxes-but-the-picture-is-complicated/

True but what uniquely offends people about cases like the LDS is that we know corporations exist to chase profits but when something like a church which claims to use donations for charity is actually amassing a fortune for seemingly no reason other than for its own sake there's a layer of hypocrisy there that isn't there with corporations.

Though I generally agree that corporations are where most of our focus should be that shouldn't mean we can';t make some time on the side for some outrage against such cases.

 

[Gregolian]

Don’t get me wrong, the portion of that that the Mormons DO use for social welfare goes a long ways.

Trouble making ends meet for bills? Hit up the church in your area and they’ll help you out. Can’t afford food or something? They’ll show up with like 5 frozen beef roasts, 4 pork roasts, bunch of canned goods and frozen ground meat so you don’t have to buy that stuff for awhile.

but the way they hoard money, the way they use the amount of kids they have as status for how much money they make bothers me.

Oh yeah.... they use Ancestry.com as a way to collect info on people to fucking baptize them after they die..... WITHOUT THE FAMILY SAYING YES. THEY JUST DO IT

 

[Islam Imamate]

Again, Mormons are hypocrites and fucking weird.

the argument I always hear is “well, what if XYZ” in relation to Mormonism. Usually involves the “what if Joseph Smith was right and you don’t realize that until you die”

my mental response:
“Oh, a fucking moron that was illiterate might have gotten it right when the Big 3 he based his religion on didnt? At this rate why aren’t you asking me to sacrifice a goat to Odin for a bountiful harvest?”

I suspect the vast majority of people commit hypocrisy to some extent, its just a lot more obvious with religious people because they have an official code that we can judge their actions by. But most of us fall short of our ideal selves if not day to day then eventually.

In the case of your roommate I'd say he'd be less of a hypocrite if he just drank the coffee but didn't let his gf stay over. Also I think one key element is does he have shame for the actions he does that go against his religion? That's not enough to absolve someone of their sins but to me it does make a difference. If he uses mental gymnastics to justify it instead of admitting he's wrong that it makes it that much worse IMO.

That's one thing that bothers me about certain religious people, it seems to me many like to come up with a specific conception of their religion that justifies their lifestyle somehow instead of admitting they fall short of their religious ideals and have room to grow. Like homosexual Christians who use mental gymnastics to justify sodomy or someone like your roommate who might try to justify living with his gf before marriage.

 

[Gregolian]

I suspect the vast majority of people commit hypocrisy to some extent, its just a lot more obvious with religious people because they have an official code that we can judge their actions by. But most of us fall short of our ideal selves if not day to day then eventually.

In the case of your roommate I'd say he'd be less of a hypocrite if he just drank the coffee but didn't let his gf stay over. Also I think one key element is does he have shame for the actions he does that go against his religion? That's not enough to absolve someone of their sins but to me it does make a difference. If he uses mental gymnastics to justify it instead of admitting he's wrong that it makes it that much worse IMO.

That's one thing that bothers me about certain religious people, it seems to me many like to come up with a specific conception of their religion that justifies their lifestyle somehow instead of admitting they fall short of their religious ideals and have room to grow. Like homosexual Christians who use mental gymnastics to justify sodomy or someone like your roommate who might try to justify living with his gf before marriage.

Oh I get it. I’m a hypocrite about things too.

it just feels weird that he’ll:
-drink a beer when the gf isn’t around for a weekend

-she spends the night all the time

but he won’t drink coffee. Like, if what you believe is real I feel like the coffee is REALLY low on the “do I go to Hell for this” list

 

[Islam Imamate]

Oh I get it. I’m a hypocrite about things too.

it just feels weird that he’ll:
-drink a beer when the gf isn’t around for a weekend

-she spends the night all the time

but he won’t drink coffee. Like, if what you believe is real I feel like the coffee is REALLY low on the “do I go to Hell for this” list

Sounds like your friend just abstains from what is already easy to abstain from and gives himself an allowance on things that are harder for him to.

Lots of religious people are like that to some extent, myself included given my love for the devil's lettuce.

 

[Gregolian]

Sounds like your friend just abstains from what is already easy to abstain from and gives himself an allowance on things that are harder for him to.

Lots of religious people are like that to some extent, myself included given my love for the devil's lettuce.

I guess living around it... it bothers me how patronizing and full of themselves Mormons are when they’re the dominant religion in an area.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I guess living around it... it bothers me how patronizing and full of themselves Mormons are when they’re the dominant religion in an area.

Can't blame you

 

[Alexander de great]

Some people have no morals.

 

[panamaican]

True but what uniquely offends people about cases like the LDS is that we know corporations exist to chase profits but when something like a church which claims to use donations for charity is actually amassing a fortune for seemingly no reason other than for its own sake there's a layer of hypocrisy there that isn't there with corporations.

Though I generally agree that corporations are where most of our focus should be that shouldn't mean we can';t make some time on the side for some outrage against such cases.

What layer of hypocrisy? Even though colleges and churches are 501(c)(3)'s, they aren't charities. They're religious organizations, I understand people seeing $100 billion and getting upset about it. But if they're spending $6 billion/year running their operation and saving/investing the remaining $1 billion, I don't have a problem with it - if the number was $6k operating, $1k invested with $100k amassed over 20 years, you wouldn't have a problem with it either.

I do have a problem if they're cheating people, defrauding them, etc. But investing their excess capital isn't an issue for me, it's prudent management on their part.

On a much smaller note, I've seen plenty of churches go under because they didn't have the capital or the economic planning to sustain themselves through a down cycle.

 

[Islam Imamate]

What layer of hypocrisy? Even though colleges and churches are 501(c)(3)'s, they aren't charities. They're religious organizations, I understand people seeing $100 billion and getting upset about it. But if they're spending $6 billion/year running their operation and saving/investing the remaining $1 billion, I don't have a problem with it - if the number was $6k operating, $1k invested with $100k amassed over 20 years, you wouldn't have a problem with it either.

I do have a problem if they're cheating people, defrauding them, etc. But investing their excess capital isn't an issue for me, it's prudent management on their part.

On a much smaller note, I've seen plenty of churches go under because they didn't have the capital or the economic planning to sustain themselves through a down cycle.

I never said I had a problem with them investing some of the money, in fact I said as much earlier and I even used the exact same word, prudent, in describing it.

I actually disagree, I think its very prudent and smart for charities to funnel a significant portion of their donations into an investment arm so that they can ensure their solvency long term and so that they can diversify the revenue streams that fund their social welfare programs. Imagine if charities didn't even need donations after a certain point and could fund themselves instead of having to rely on handouts year after year.

My issue was articulated here.

The problem here is that the $100 billion wasn't amassed to fund social welfare programs, it was amassed for this reason

Haha, dafuq? If there is a second coming of Christ something tells me he ain't coming back to look for mountains of gold.

 

[panamaican]

I never said I had a problem with them investing some of the money, in fact I said as much earlier and I even used the exact same word, prudent, in describing it.

My issue was articulated here.

That wasn't in your post to me. The post I was responding to said:

...is actually amassing a fortune for seemingly no reason other than for its own sake there's a layer of hypocrisy there that isn't there with corporations.

Which is what I disagreed with.

As for the whole 2nd coming of Christ thing - their religion, their rules. I don't know what they expect from the 2nd coming so I'm not in a position to judge if it's going to need financing. For all I know, by their belief system, they might be underfunded.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That wasn't in your post to me. The post I was responding to said:
Which is what I disagreed with.

As for the whole 2nd coming of Christ thing - their religion, their rules. I don't know what they expect from the 2nd coming so I'm not in a position to judge if it's going to need financing. For all I know, by their belief system, they might be underfunded.

Okay.

 

[ElKarlo]

I would agree with the general sentiment but churches and colleges being near the top of the list is really burying the lead here.

The list of groups/people gaming the system that are of higher priority is pretty big.

Here's a simpler one - Amazon paid $170 million in taxes on $16 Billion in profits. It was something like a 1.34% tax rate. And quite a few corporations are in similar boats. And this is after we cut the corporate tax rate. So, from my perspective, colleges and churches come far later in the system.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...federal-taxes-but-the-picture-is-complicated/

I agree. The tax system needs to be flattened. There are too many companies and not just Amazon that are cheaters. Though I hate Amazon and want it punished

 

[ElKarlo]

I actually disagree, I think its very prudent and smart for charities to funnel a significant portion of their donations into an investment arm so that they can ensure their solvency long term and so that they can diversify the revenue streams that fund their social welfare programs. Imagine if charities didn't even need donations after a certain point and could fund themselves instead of having to rely on handouts year after year.

The problem here is that the $100 billion wasn't amassed to fund social welfare programs, it was amassed for this reason

Haha, dafuq? If there is a second coming of Christ something tells me he ain't coming back to look for mountains of gold.

Would be nice for charities to be self funded. But it does get weird. What if I'm renting from a charity? Or I owe it money? I think that puts both of us in an awkward position.
Or if the charity is the LDS and I work for a subsidiary, and I leave the LDS, what if the charity finds clever ways to punish me? I don't want to we groups to have more power than they already wield.

Also the LDS needs 6 bliion a year. I can see having a year or three stored away just in case. But 100 billion is just excessive.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Would be nice for charities to be self funded. But it does get weird. What if I'm renting from a charity? Or I owe it money? I think that puts both of us in an awkward position.
Or if the charity is the LDS and I work for a subsidiary, and I leave the LDS, what if the charity finds clever ways to punish me? I don't want to we groups to have more power than they already wield.

I can't say I have the answers to such question but I still think such an effort would be worth pursuing.

Also the LDS needs 6 bliion a year. I can see having a year or three stored away just in case. But 100 billion is just excessive.

I don't really have a problem with the amount, its the purpose and the way its managed.

Consider if they had the same number but it was conservatively invested and had a rate of return of 2%, half of which is put back in the fund and the other half spent on charity. That way increasing the size of the fund would have the effect of increasing the amount they can spend on charity.

 

[Gregolian]

Reviving the thread.

The Mormons DO do a lot of good with the money they take in too:
https://www.ksl.com/article/4672161...about-100m-in-assistance-in-2019-reports-show

Granted, given how much of a windfall they have saved up 100mil feels like a drop in the 5 gallon barrel.