b0b said:
Sorry to use that old 90's ghetto slang, but I would like to start a discussion on the rules of BJJ tournaments. Let me prefece this by saying that everyone loves to see submissions and NO ONE likes to see someone lay on top of someone else for 5 minutes.
Now, since the rules of BJJ basically encourages you to get dominate position and hold it, do you get pissed at people who get up on points and lay in dominate position?
For example:
Someone passes guard, gets mount. They are now up by a significant amount of points. Would you be pissed if this guy went to a Kesa or sidemount and pinned the other guy until the match is over?
I see both sides of the spectrum. If I am the guy on top, I am playing the game. I am up on points, and have NO reason to risk losing by going for a sub or trying something fancy. I also don't like to see boring matches.
Wrong. And this has been done to death.
You are awarded points for superior positioning. Often among competitors of equal ability there is no submission in the time alloted. Therefore the winner is determined on superior position.
This is based off the premise that 'in a real fight' the guy with the superior position can inflict more damage than the other guy. This is somewhat true. If you can pass a guys guard you can knee and elbow him into oblivion. If you can mount him you can pound him into the pavement. But this is BJJ so we don't.
The next obvious remark is that grappling matches shouldn't have time limits and should go to submission each time. Been there and done that. It is a battle of attrition at that point. 30 minute matches pass any kind of 'reality' check you were going for. Nobody is going to let you fight for 30 minutes. And in competition there are simply too many people to have a lot of these 30 minute matches. Take for example, GQ last week. 1000+ competitors? Yeah right - tryin running that event with no time limits. It would be a week long event. Unrealistic to expect.
Now as to your assuption that BJJ players are just going for points is wrong. You are VERY new to this sport, and to grappling in general. It wasn't long ago Bob that you were askin HOW DO ARMBAR? kinds of questions. Everyone would like to have the submission. EVERYONE. But I am not going to be an idiot in the last 30 seconds of the 4-2 match where I am winning to jump off a mount and go for a triangle, only to watch you pass my guard to win 5-4 in the last seconds. That would be stupid. It is a competition and I am there to advance to the finals.
Take a look at top guys in the sport today. They are finishers. Jacare. Roger. Marcello. Saulo. They all want the tap. But when it isn't possible we have to determine who the winner of the match is. So we go off points.
Now I am not a top level player. I go for the finish when its availible. But I certainly am not going to use more energy than I need to go chain submissions in my first round when I know I have 3 more guys to fight. I'd rather chill in side control and wait a minute. My opponent is losing. HE needs to make something happen. Not me. We go back to that whole 'reality' thing. I could bust his fucking skull. It might be cheesey to stall. But its even cheesier to just sit there like a sack of shit on the bottom getting fucking owned hoping the top guy is forced to movement from the referee who wants to see some action. Nah. Fuck that. Give me a warning if you want. But it takes 2 to tango. If the bottom guy is just gonna curl up and go defense it is going to take too much effort to break through his defenses. I'll ride him til he opens up. Otherwise I'll just advance to the next round and try again. He can go home and cry on a message board about the other guy 'stalling' him; when the reality of the situation is he was being owned, and was unable to do anything other than grab his collars and assume a fetal position.
Keep in mind. It is a sport. A competition. We have rules. And although nobody likes to see someone stalling out to a victory it is a viable strategy. A strategy I have used, and had used against me. Learn to deal with it. Like I said, if you are down on points and the guy is laying on you FUCKING MOVE! Don't curl up like a bitch and cry about how you were stalled out. #1 you shouldn't have lost the points to begin with. #2 if you do lose the points its up to you to get them back. #3 the top guy is conserving energy for his next fight. #4 Although submission ends the fights quicker, it is also riskier. BJJ is chess, it ain't checkers. Learn strategy and use it. When you expose yourself to unneccessary risks you have a higher chance of being countered.
All that being said I still laugh at the asshole who was beating me 10-4 a couple of years ago and went for an armbar while whooping to his team on the sideline. I blocked it and passed. Then mounted for an 11-10 victory in the last minute. Where I whooped to my team but DIDN'T go for the armbar. And won the tournament.
If they wanted to sub you real bad, they'd make you stay on the ground.
