Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game.

[b0b]

Sorry to use that old 90's ghetto slang, but I would like to start a discussion on the rules of BJJ tournaments. Let me prefece this by saying that everyone loves to see submissions and NO ONE likes to see someone lay on top of someone else for 5 minutes.

Now, since the rules of BJJ basically encourages you to get dominate position and hold it, do you get pissed at people who get up on points and lay in dominate position?

For example:

Someone passes guard, gets mount. They are now up by a significant amount of points. Would you be pissed if this guy went to a Kesa or sidemount and pinned the other guy until the match is over?


I see both sides of the spectrum. If I am the guy on top, I am playing the game. I am up on points, and have NO reason to risk losing by going for a sub or trying something fancy. I also don't like to see boring matches.

 

[Foolkiller]

If someone loses on points then that's on them for not escaping or reversing positions or finishing the guy. Point players suck but it's the responsibility of both guys to do their best, if one can't escape pins and is outpointed then thems the breaks.

 

[DonkeyKong]

You can

 

[b0b]

You can

 

[DonkeyKong]

Are you saying you can't stay in the same position for more than 20 seconds by rules or by ability?

rules. positions are crafted to be held indefinitely

 

[Kawlinz]

The guy on top is just playing them game... kind of like how in UFC the wrestlers can shoot all they want, and if it's stuffed, drop to one knee so they don't get kneed in the head. Taking advantage of the rules put in place, but hey, that's the game.

 

[Happy Camper]

rules. positions are crafted to be held indefinitely

Have you ever compeated? I dont think i have seen a match where there have been positional change withing 20 seconds after eachother during the whole match EVER.

 

[Os3y3ris]

I hate stalling ass players. If I go to compete, I want to do jiujitsu. If I wanted the match to end after one takedown I'd do judo. I wanna hit the ground and start working so subs, sweeps, etc, not hug the guy to death. Fuck that lame shit.

 

[triso]

Stalling does suck, but it is (unfortunately) enabled by the rules of grappling tournaments.

I don

 

[knoxpk]

I think there are differnt events for differnt competitors.
There are those that do no points at all and that is obviosly for subs then there are the points matches.

While sub grappling is definately NOT a fist fight it can reasonably tell you on a given day who the dominant fighter is THAT day.

For instance if you face a guy that cna pin you all day long and you have no answer then it is safe to assume he could control you in a fight as well(assuming it went to the ground). You have to go practice pin escapes.

On the other hand if you can get out of pins but end up getting subbed from their guard then you have to practice guard p[asses and sub defense.

Pretty simple.

My point is there are different types of players in BJJ and that is why it is so great.
there are guys that fight like hell for position and once they get it they aint gonna let it go.
then there are guys that will roll all over the mat, win or lose in order to try to get a sub.

Neither is wrong they are just differnt.

 

[Balto]

rules. positions are crafted to be held indefinitely

Have you ever been to a competition that enforced this?

I've never seen a stalling call in any grappling competition ever -- certainly not after only 20 seconds.

 

[Kawlinz]

The "LnPers" kind of force you to get better at escapes.... no? Isn't that what her used to do.... take people down for 2 points and sit in guard the whole match?

 

[knoxpk]

While we are on the topic I would like to vent.
Another thing I CANNOT stand is the lack of takedowns attempted by some.
I now this is Sub GRAPPLING and most ppl are there to test the skills on the ground BUT I cannot help and shake my head when watching a MMA match and some BB in BJJ is having a helluva time getting his guy to the ground and in the meantime eating shots.
Then I see clips of the Sub Grappling and BJJ matches and see folks basically flopping to the guard.

Sure they may be GREAT once on the ground but heck what if you cant get the fight there?
Watching TUF and seeing Gurgel get whooped by that other fighter(he was pretty good on his feet though) was very disappointing. you would have thought that a BB in BJJ would have better takedowns and be able to put the fight in HIS range.

But after review I see many clips of guys not even bothering to attempt it!

Ok I know I went off on 2 or 3 different tangents but my point is the guard flopping (to me) is as bad as the lay and prayers.

 

[b0b]

While we are on the topic I would like to vent.
Another thing I CANNOT stand is the lack of takedowns attempted by some.
I now this is Sub GRAPPLING and most ppl are there to test the skills on the ground BUT I cannot help and shake my head when watching a MMA match and some BB in BJJ is having a helluva time getting his guy to the ground and in the meantime eating shots.
Then I see clips of the Sub Grappling and BJJ matches and see folks basically flopping to the guard.

Sure they may be GREAT once on the ground but heck what if you cant get the fight there?
Watching TUF and seeing Gurgel get whooped by that other fighter(he was pretty good on his feet though) was very disappointing. you would have thought that a BB in BJJ would have better takedowns and be able to put the fight in HIS range.

But after review I see many clips of guys not even bothering to attempt it!

Ok I know I went off on 2 or 3 different tangents but my point is the guard flopping (to me) is as bad as the lay and prayers.

I am so new right now (2 months) that if I end up on my back, I am pretty much screwed. I am as agressive as I can be on the takedown, so I can get dominate position right away.

 

[Commissar]

If I had it my way, each match would go to a submission end. Period. No time limit, no points.
Unfortunately, that doesn't happen anymore.

In Western Canada, there's a series of tournaments yearly called the Absolute Submission Challenge (no-gi tournament). There's one in Kelowna on December 3, 2005.
Rules at these events are that each match will be five minutes long, or ended short by submission. If you win the match by submission, you get 3 points, as it is round robin.
If the match does not result with a submission, each player receives 1 point and it is ruled a draw. And if you get submitted, you get 0 points.
Whoever accumulates the most points throughout the season becomes champion of his weight class.

There should be an annual tournament, perhaps, that gives you a time limit of, say, ten or twenty minutes, and no points are given for passing the guard, sweeps, etc. With a time limit like that, with the knowledge that the fight must finish via submission for either fighter to 'win', it would suggest to both players that they'd prefer to win early.

 

[Kawlinz]

If I had it my way, each match would go to a submission end. Period. No time limit, no points.
Unfortunately, that doesn't happen anymore.

In Western Canada, there's a series of tournaments yearly called the Absolute Submission Challenge (no-gi tournament). There's one in Kelowna on December 3, 2005.
Rules at these events are that each match will be five minutes long, or ended short by submission. If you win the match by submission, you get 3 points, as it is round robin.
If the match does not result with a submission, each player receives 1 point and it is ruled a draw. And if you get submitted, you get 0 points.
Whoever accumulates the most points throughout the season becomes champion of his weight class.

There should be an annual tournament, perhaps, that gives you a time limit of, say, ten or twenty minutes, and no points are given for passing the guard, sweeps, etc. With a time limit like that, with the knowledge that the fight must finish via submission for either fighter to 'win', it would suggest to both players that they'd prefer to win early.

The round robin thing sounds pretty sweet actually. If they set up a tourney with the top finishers afterwards it wouldn't be too bad..... it's just hard to make a bracket tourney without time limits, that doesn't give points.

They should have iron man matches... 1 hour... 3 points per tap out.... any tapout restartes the match within 30 seconds.. hahah!

 

[Commissar]

The round robin thing sounds pretty sweet actually. If they set up a tourney with the top finishers afterwards it wouldn't be too bad..... it's just hard to make a bracket tourney without time limits, that doesn't give points.

They should have iron man matches... 1 hour... 3 points per tap out.... any tapout restartes the match within 30 seconds.. hahah!

I love the round robin, submission-only matches. I love no-time limit matches, though.

 

[Kawlinz]

because no time-limit is the true test.

 

[Truculent]

I got robbed at my last tournament. The guy would take me down, I'd pull full guard, then he'd stand up in guard and work to get one leg out at a time and back out completely. Completely a point guy because once I got him on his back I passed his guard like he didn't know he was supposed to have one. Took mount, went for an armbar; he rolled and gave me his back. I sunk in the RNC and as soon as I cranked it the time went up.

point guys are ghey.

 

[b0b]

I got robbed at my last tournament. The guy would take me down, I'd pull full guard, then he'd stand up in guard and work to get one leg out at a time and back out completely. Completely a point guy because once I got him on his back I passed his guard like he didn't know he was supposed to have one. Took mount, went for an armbar; he rolled and gave me his back. I sunk in the RNC and as soon as I cranked it the time went up.

point guys are ghey.

How many times did he take you down? The guard pass, mount and back should have given you a ton of points.