Dog training and putting the "alpha dog" theory to sleep.

[Zookeeper Gabe]

This is a great article and an amazing book that dog owners should read. Brings up the actual biology of the animals and how the alpha mentality isn't correct.
"The most pervasive and pernicious idea informing modern dog training techniques is that the dog is driven to set up a dominance hierarchy wherever it finds itself." He explains that apparently dominant dogs are usually "anxious" rather than "ambitious". He says: "They don't want to control people, they want to control their own lives. It is what we are all aiming for – to keep control of our own lives. It is a fundamental biological urge."

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...hn-bradshaw-animal-behaviour?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Does this mean I should stop biting my dog back every time he bites me?

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

You're only allowed to bite your dog if you sniff his butt.

 

[cabear]

I'll discuss this with my Bassett hound later but I'm pretty sure neither of us are the alpha...

 

[RoadKing Custom]

I'll discuss this with my Bassett hound later but I'm pretty sure neither of us are the alpha...

How long have you been married?

 

[cabear]

6 years this july!

 

[RoadKing Custom]

6 years this july!

I see you're a fast learner..

 

[ROKKO]

Without doing any research on my own or looking into the subject I have to disagree. Dogs are a pack animal packs always have a level of hierarchy whether you're animal or human. Packs have a hierarchy. When groups are involved an organization is usually entwined regardless of how loosely. I want to reiterate this is only opinion/life experience. I have done zero research.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

This is a great article and an amazing book that dog owners should read. Brings up the actual biology of the animals and how the alpha mentality isn't correct.
"The most pervasive and pernicious idea informing modern dog training techniques is that the dog is driven to set up a dominance hierarchy wherever it finds itself." He explains that apparently dominant dogs are usually "anxious" rather than "ambitious". He says: "They don't want to control people, they want to control their own lives. It is what we are all aiming for – to keep control of our own lives. It is a fundamental biological urge."

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...hn-bradshaw-animal-behaviour?CMP=share_btn_fb

So, it comes down to dog insecurity. Just like people.

A truly powerful leader doesn't need to act out, he already has his peers' respect and manifests it with his natural, relaxed body language and everyday actions. Dogs and people that want this but don't have it tend to try to make up for it with douchey behavior that gets them completely plowed under as soon as a true leader comes along.

That dog whisperer guy said something similar. That dogs have and demonstrate good or poor social skills just like people. He uses places dogs that act up with dogs who are strong and have good social skills, which teaches and changes a wigger-dog's insecure behavior quickly.

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

Without doing any research on my own or looking into the subject I have to disagree. Dogs are a pack animal packs always have a level of hierarchy whether you're animal or human. Packs have a hierarchy. When groups are involved an organization is usually entwined regardless of how loosely. I want to reiterate this is only opinion/life experience. I have done zero research.

Very common misconception, just give the article a quick read. It's quite enlightening.

 

[Iroh]

Doesn't really sound like one would exclude the other. Being the dominant one does give you more control over your life.

 

[Jar of Flies]

My Jack Russel was very hard to train. I was told he was a pack leader but I think he was just a little slow.

 

[Abezal]

Sounds like wack science interpretation of a philosopher.

Dog do well when their life in controlled by the human, while its logical dogs don't make good leaders as they never achieve the mentality and maturity of a wolf. Those traits were bread out of them.

 

[Cayenne]

There are different schools of thought on dog training. Consider an academic expert (as in the Guardian article) to an expert trainer that has dealt hands-on with dogs every day for 30 years. One expertise isn’t inherently any better than the other. One expert has his nose in books all day, studying the dog but without experience with real life dogs it’s easy to cultivate a distorted perspective. An expert trainer has immense experience and keen instincts on what works and doesn’t because he deals with it every day. It’s going to take more than 1 scientist with 1 hypothesis to change things. If 20 experts working together came forward and said “This is how dogs work,” it would be worth some more attention.

 

[FyrFytr998]

So dogs trying assert dominance over another dog isn't alphaism?

Then what's the hell is wrong with my dumb ass dogs and the quest to be the first out the door to bark at the neighbors?

 

[Zookeeper Gabe]

The majority of trainers and pretty much most behaviorists have moved away from the alpha dog mentality. They have switched over to a positive reinforcement based approach that's very effective. We use positive reinforcement at the zoo all the time in training.

 

[ROKKO]

Gabe I read the article because you suggested it twice. Once in your opening statement and then again when you quoted me. I read it it was good to read but doesn't change me from my hard learning experience. If scientists have only studied the American/European wolf then I agree they are limiting their history lesson. what about the African dogs that run wild all over the African continent. Are they not pack animals? Packs need organization otherwise everybody is just a solitary unit. Such as rats that hang around each other but look out for themselves. I've been drinking and I'm sure there are people with more well put together opinions but this has been entertaining to me. I'm not arguing for or against the story just stating my own opinion

TL;DR - I appreciate the additional outlook

 

[cabear]

I see you're a fast learner..

Life's easier this way .

 

[RoadKing Custom]

Life's easier this way .

Four Shore
**best Joe Rogan voice**

 

[Doughbelly]

There are different schools of thought on dog training. Consider an academic expert (as in the Guardian article) to an expert trainer that has dealt hands-on with dogs every day for 30 years. One expertise isn’t inherently any better than the other. One expert has his nose in books all day, studying the dog but without experience with real life dogs it’s easy to cultivate a distorted perspective. An expert trainer has immense experience and keen instincts on what works and doesn’t because he deals with it every day. It’s going to take more than 1 scientist with 1 hypothesis to change things. If 20 experts working together came forward and said “This is how dogs work,” it would be worth some more attention.

That's pretty much completely backwards.

The last thing an academic who studies animals is have is head in his books all the time. People who study animals do so by actually studying the animals, observing them in their settings, designing and conducting experiments. An academic expert likely has just as much, if not significantly more hands on experience with dogs in a multitude of settings with a variety of dogs than a trainer.

A trainer is someone who actually has a very narrow focus, which is to modify a dog or animal's behavior to conform to human social norms and/or follow a very specific pattern of behaviors, generally only within the confines of his or her local community. He or she is not actually more of an expert on the behavior, evolutionary biology or any number of broader perspectives than someone who has devoted a lifetime to studying the species as a whole.