Dog meat: There are countries that eat it !

[USA!USA!]

Whilst I'm sure 90% of people's qualms about dog meat is down to social reasons like pet ownership, I think there is a case to say they would suffer more than farm animals. Farm animals were bred to be farmed and their behaviour has been altered to make them docile etc. Dogs have been bred to interact with humans, consider humans their friends etc. Farming them would have a different effect to say a chicken IMO.

I cant disagree - if you were to farm dogs, you'd have to do it differently than cows or pigs because they would see it coming.

 

[Thrawn33]

If dog tastes good, I'll eat it.

 

[Alphafail]

Meh, have you seen the stuff the french eat? As far as cruelty to animals, have you seen how hamburgers are made?

 

[Stargazer Rex]

I will eat ANYTHING.

 

[Banchan]

If dog tastes good, I'll eat it.

its said to be like poor mans goat

 

[Mondo Freaks]

those people are sick fucks

 

[Banchan]

Whilst I'm sure 90% of people's qualms about dog meat is down to social reasons like pet ownership, I think there is a case to say they would suffer more than farm animals. Farm animals were bred to be farmed and their behaviour has been altered to make them docile etc. Dogs have been bred to interact with humans, consider humans their friends etc. Farming them would have a different effect to say a chicken IMO.

no i think its more to do with dog being more visible. you dont see cows or pigs sitting in crates at farmers markets and people picking them out like lobster and killing them on the spot. its something a large portion of the world isnt used to seeing anymor. animals kicking and screaming and being pulled away and then the animal emerging dead a few minutes later. surely its hard seeing a dog doing that but i would assume near as many people would rethink beef and pork if that was the way they were being processed too. the korean governmemt either needs to crack down on how these animals are farmed, handled and slaughtered or they need to start enforcing the ban.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Whilst I'm sure 90% of people's qualms about dog meat is down to social reasons like pet ownership, I think there is a case to say they would suffer more than farm animals. Farm animals were bred to be farmed and their behaviour has been altered to make them docile etc. Dogs have been bred to interact with humans, consider humans their friends etc. Farming them would have a different effect to say a chicken IMO.

I'd say that covers it. Dogs instinctually trust humans. It seems like a betrayal to kill and eat them. To me, it's like killing and eating human babies. I just kill 'em, not eat 'em.

But only when they're in my GF's womb.

 

[Banchan]

I'd say that covers it. Dogs instinctually trust humans. It seems like a betrayal to kill and eat them. To me, it's like killing and eating human babies. I just kill 'em, not eat 'em.

But only when they're in my GF's womb.

dogs in other parts of the world have not been domesticated for hundreds of years. kind of your view here but not necessarily applicable to dogs and their relationship to people in every other part of the world.

 

[Banchan]

Well you did say "There is zero difference between dogs or cows or pigs or goats etc". I think there is both from the position of pain perception and threat perception (leading up the slaughter). That's probably what we're disagreeing about.

Another thing to bear in mind is that everything dies and most things suffer when they die. Wild animals often freeze to death, starve over many weeks because they lose their last set of teeth, from disease, get eaten alive by predators and so on. You can count the number who "pass away peacefully in their sleep" on one hand I'd imagine. Whilst they're alive they also suffer from disease and the stress of simply trying to survive in an insanely competitive environment. Farm animals have comparably easy lives and then get killed without warning, ideally using "humane" methods involving brain stunning. I think that's quite an enviable life compared to plenty of wild animals, and even some humans who have to go through years of cancer and dementia before they get relief.

Some might say that it would be kinder to not cause them to live in the first place by farming them but then that's akin to saying life is worthless because it ends in death and that's certainly not true for humans.

I'm personally not entirely clear what is so bad about a good life followed by a quick, unexpected death?

"without warning"? the minute you move an animal off the farm it knows something is wrong and starts becoming stressed. the minute you seperate animals from their herd and living mates it knows something is wrong. basically its like Saw the movie for animals as soon as they leave the farm.

 

[Sir Galahad]

 

[Banchan]

I cant disagree - if you were to farm dogs, you'd have to do it differently than cows or pigs because they would see it coming.

its kind of shows the ample amount of disrespect that people have for farm animals to assume they dont see it coming. they see it coming. animals show signs of distress as soon as you move them from the farm.

 

[Codger]

"without warning"? the minute you move an animal off the farm it knows something is wrong and starts becoming stressed. the minute you seperate animals from their herd and living mates it knows something is wrong. basically its like Saw the movie for animals as soon as they leave the farm.

They've no idea they're going to die. They've no concept of abbatoirs.

A well looked after farm animal has a much better life than most wild animals.

 

[AgentSmecker]

It's not just intelligence, it's awareness. A human would suss out that something was really wrong about the situation as they were being herded into an abbatoir. Other animals, including mammals, less so. I'd say a pig is more likely to sense a bad situation than a more stupid cow.

Then there is the experience we call pain: Almost all animals have neurons, not just mammals. Even earth worms and insects. So if your policy is not produce harm to anything with neurons you'd better not be crushing roaches. But pain isn't as simple as merely having neurons, it's about nociception and the experience of that. And pain is not merely nociception. Nociception is the brain receiving messages from pain receptors and we know various lower animals, including insects appear to receive and react to such signals. Pain is the experience created by the brain in response to nociception. Whether animals experience it as the same sort of pain humans do is unknown. Even in humans, the link between nociception and pain is not linear at all. You can have strong nociception and feel very little or visa versa. This is commonplace in observations of things like nerve pain from back injuries. It's possible insects suffer pain the same as us not not at all. We can't know for sure.

But some scientists believe that human-style pain requires a level of emotional sophistication to add meaning to the nociception. Therefore animals with higher emotional abilities (which is very much aligned with intelligence) might suffer more pain than less able ones. To whit, a pig may suffer more than a more stupid animal.

So you see my continuum argument is very much pertinent to the claim that all mammals suffer the same.

Of course not all animals suffer exactly the same just as not all human animals suffer the same. Very young children or severely retarded individuals might have no fucking clue what was going on if you used them in a painful biomedical experiment or simply decided to kill them and eat them and most non human animals would defintely suffer far more, if not physically, then certainly psychologically in the same situation so you see using intelligence as the criteria for deciding who gets to be in our little "golden rule club" is completely arbitrary and unjust.

 

[Codger]

Of course not all animals suffer exactly the same just as not all human animals suffer the same. Very young children or severely retarded individuals might have no fucking clue what was going on if you used them in a painful biomedical experiment or simply decided to kill them and eat them and most non human animals would defintely suffer far more, if not physically, then certainly psychologically in the same situation so you see using intelligence as the criteria for deciding who gets to be in our little "golden rule club" is completely arbitrary and unjust.

Let me make it clear that I'm not saying we should use intelligence purely to pick and choose. I was arguing that suffering isn't equal across all species merely because they have neurons, a point made by a previous poster. I'm personally OK with killing animals to eat them, or wear their fur for that matter as long as they're kept and killed well. I've kept animals myself and looked after them. They had a fine life and died better than most people I know. But intelligence is a factor in suffering and I'm willing to bet you'd feel better about killing a fly than than a chimp.

It's true that a retarded person or a baby wouldn't have the sense of threat at all and could be killed as humanely as a farm animal. And of course we do use this fact in abortion and turning off life support machines of coma victims etc.

Our little club is humans. Humans are our species. We have higher standards for ourselves. I don't think that counts as arbitrary. it's hardly on a whim or at random. our entire society is based on valuing other humans and empathising with them and we don't apply these standards to animals.

When you start arguing that animals should have the same position as humans you lose me.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

dogs in other parts of the world have not been domesticated for hundreds of years. kind of your view here but not necessarily applicable to dogs and their relationship to people in every other part of the world.

Most of them have, which is why they are not wolves.

 

[USA!USA!]

its kind of shows the ample amount of disrespect that people have for farm animals to assume they dont see it coming. they see it coming. animals show signs of distress as soon as you move them from the farm.

I wouldnt call it disrespect. Perhaps uneducated. Everything that I have heard makes it sound like they just follow the crowd and don't perceive the danger until they're dead.

 

[mushishi]

I don't mean to be contrary, but it was super close to the most popular entrance to a 100-stall food market and had obvious signs. I was the only one I saw, though.

PS - The mung bean ground cakes done on oiled griddles were so amazing.

What city? Going to Seoul in about a month. I can update.

 

[ikareteru]

That was one of the reasons why I don't eat pigs because of their high intelligence.

I still eat chicken and beef though so I do sound hypocritical. I do wish someday I could take them both out from the list but do suffer migraines the times I did go without meat for a few days

I dont eat pig for exactly the same reason. Only eat free range, healthy chickens

 

[ookii]

If dog tastes good, I'll eat it.

You don't know until you have tried