International Does the Epstein scandal make the West look bad?

[The XL]

Bad? No.

It makes the West look like hypocrites for moralizing to 3rd world nations.

How does it not make the West look bad?

 

[panamaican]

Look bad to whom? To our own citizens it does, but for countries outside of the west, most of them have an age of consent of like 12-15, so a bunch of old creeps getting handjobs from 16-18 year olds is just a Tuesday. The age of consent in China is like 14.

That is the reality of it. In most of the world, they wouldn't give 2 shits about this so long as it's consensual. And consensual means the girl agrees or, in some places, the parents agree. But the actions themselves aren't some evil thing to them.

What those people do care about is when the West runs up in their country and wags its fingers saying "You can't do that. You're not a civilized nation if you do that. There's no admission to international governing bodies if you that. Etc., etc."

It's the cultural moralizing that takes a hit. Some dude in Africa or Asia or the Middle East with 2 wives, both of whom he married at 16, isn't going to suddenly change his perspective on his lifestyle choices.

 

[panamaican]

How does it not make the West look bad?

Because most of the world doesn't think these types of things are "bad". We live in a world where, outside of the West, polygamy is legal, child brides are legal. They don't see the actions themselves as inherently bad.

They resent the hypocrisy of the West always telling them to change their cultures because the West knows better. But the people in these Epstein files, while objectionable to me (and others with our cultural values) weren't carrying out the whims of the West. They were doing what men all over the world are doing. So, the gripe will be that the West needs to police itself and leave other people alone.

But here's the thing. The rest of the world has always known the West were hypocrites on this. Sex tourism tends to be people from the West flying to these other people's countries to engage in the sexual behaviors that are legal in the destination country, but not in their country of origin. And everyone in those countries knows it. They know the West is hypocritical, it's just never been put front and center like it is now.

 

[UFCUCF]

No, electing a guy President who is featured in the files makes the west look bad.

 

[Cid]

Because most of the world doesn't think these types of things are "bad". We live in a world where, outside of the West, polygamy is legal, child brides are legal. They don't see the actions themselves as inherently bad.

They resent the hypocrisy of the West always telling them to change their cultures because the West knows better. But the people in these Epstein files, while objectionable to me (and others with our cultural values) weren't carrying out the whims of the West. They were doing what men all over the world are doing. So, the gripe will be that the West needs to police itself and leave other people alone.

But here's the thing. The rest of the world has always known the West were hypocrites on this. Sex tourism tends to be people from the West flying to these other people's countries to engage in the sexual behaviors that are legal in the destination country, but not in their country of origin. And everyone in those countries knows it. They know the West is hypocritical, it's just never been put front and center like it is now.

The west is substantially more sex worker friendly than everyone else. You yanks are an exception not the rule.

 

[Rholk]

The western elites, sure.
I hope people aren't under the illusion that (part of) the elites in other parts of the world are any better though.

However sad that might be

 

[UberHere]

It shows that Mossad, the CIA, and whatever other intelligence agencies need to be fucking destroyed.

So….. we shouldn’t be gathering intelligence in foreign countries?

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Epstein revelations have toppled top figures in Europe while US fallout is more muted​

BY JILL LAWLESS

LONDON (AP) — A prince, an ambassador, senior diplomats, top politicians. All brought down by the Jeffrey Epstein files. And all in Europe, rather than the United States.

The huge trove of Epstein documents released by the U.S. Department of Justice has sent shock waves through Europe’s political, economic and social elites — dominating headlines, ending careers and spurring political and criminal investigations.

Former U.K. Ambassador to Washington Peter Mandelson was fired and could go to prison. British Prime Minister Keir Starmer faces a leadership crisis over the Mandelson appointment. Senior figures have fallen in Norway, Sweden and Slovakia. And, even before the latest batch of files, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, brother of King Charles III, lost his honors, princely title and taxpayer-funded mansion.

Apart from the former Prince Andrew, none of them faces claims of sexual wrongdoing. They have been toppled for maintaining friendly relationships with Epstein after he became a convicted sex offender.

“Epstein collected powerful people the way others collect frequent flyer points,” said Mark Stephens, a specialist in international and human rights law at Howard Kennedy in London. “But the receipts are now in public, and some might wish they’d traveled less.”

The documents were published after a public frenzy over Epstein became a crisis for President Donald Trump’s administration and led to a rare bipartisan effort to force the government to open its investigative files. But in the U.S., the long-sought publication has not brought the same public reckoning with Epstein’s associates — at least so far.

Rob Ford, a professor of political science at the University of Manchester, said that in Britain, “if you’re in those files, it’s immediately a big story.”

“It suggests to me we have a more functional media, we have a more functional accountability structure, that there is still a degree of shame in politics, in terms of people will say: ‘This is just not acceptable, this is just not done,’” he said.

British repercussions​

U.K. figures felled by their ties to Epstein include the former Prince Andrew — who paid millions to settle a lawsuit with one of Epstein’s victims and is facing pressure to testify in the U.S. — and his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson, whose charity shut down this week.

Like others now ensnared, veteran politician Mandelson long downplayed his relationship with Epstein, despite calling him “my best pal” in 2003. The new files reveal contact continued for years after the financier’s 2008 prison term for sexual offenses involving a minor. In a July 2009 message, Mandelson appeared to refer to Epstein’s release from prison as “liberation day.”

Starmer fired Mandelson in September over earlier revelations about his Epstein ties. Now British police are investigating whether Mandelson committed misconduct in public office by passing on sensitive government information to Epstein.

Starmer has apologized to Epstein’s victims and pledged to release public documents that will show Mandelson lied when he was being vetted for the ambassador’s job. That may not be enough to stop furious lawmakers trying to eject the prime minister from office over his failure of judgment.

American associates​

Experts caution that Britain shouldn’t be too quick to pat itself on the back over its rapid reckoning with Mandelson. The U.S. has a better record than the U.K. when it comes to declassifying and publishing information.

But Alex Thomas, executive director of the Institute for Government think tank, said “there is something about parliamentary democracy,” with its need for a prime minister to retain the confidence of Parliament to stay in office, “that I think does help drive accountability.”

A few high-profile Americans have faced repercussions over their friendly ties with Epstein. Most prominent is former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, who went on leave from academic positions at Harvard University late last year.

Brad Karp quit last week as chair of top U.S. law firm Paul Weiss after revelations in the latest batch of documents, and the National Football League said it would investigate Epstein’s relationship with New York Giants co-owner Steve Tisch, who exchanged sometimes crude emails with Epstein about potential dates with adult women.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Other U.S. Epstein associates have not yet faced severe sanction, including former Trump strategist Steve Bannon, who exchanged hundreds of texts with Epstein, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, who accepted an invitation to visit Epstein’s private island, and tech billionaire Elon Musk, who discussed visiting the island in emails, but says he never made the trip.

Former President Bill Clinton has been compelled by Republicans to testify before Congress about his friendship with Epstein. Trump, too, has repeatedly faced questions about his ties to Epstein. Neither he nor Clinton has ever been accused of wrongdoing by Epstein’s victims.

European investigations​

The Epstein files reveal the global network of royals, political leaders, billionaires, bankers and academics that the wealthy financier built around him.

Across Europe, officials have had or resign or face censure after the Epstein files revealed relationships that were more extensive than previously disclosed.

Joanna Rubinstein, a Swedish U.N. official, quit after the revelation of a 2012 visit to Epstein’s Caribbean island. Miroslav Lajcak, national security adviser to Slovakia’s prime minister, quit over his communications with Epstein, which included the pair discussing “gorgeous” girls.

Latvia, Lithuania and Poland have set up wide-ranging official investigations into the documents. Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk said a team would scour the files for potential Polish victims, and any links between Epstein and Russian secret services.

Epstein took an interest in European politics, in one email exchange with billionaire Peter Thiel calling Britain’s 2016 vote to leave the European Union “just the beginning” and part of a return to “tribalism.”

Grégoire Roos, director of the Europe program at the think tank Chatham House, said the files uncover Epstein’s “far-reaching” network of contacts in Europe, “and the level of access among not just those who were already in power, but those who were getting there.

“It will be interesting to see whether in the correspondence he had an influence in policymaking,” Roos said.

Full read:
https://apnews.com/article/jeffrey-...us-mandelson-409c14e095a2e29bbea6398437411a8d

 

[LeonardoBjj]

No, electing a guy President who is featured in the files makes the west look bad.

- featured several times

 

[Long Dark Blues]

So….. we shouldn’t be gathering intelligence in foreign countries?

I vote MOAB them.

The agencies, I mean.

 

[PhitePhan]

So….. we shouldn’t be gathering intelligence in foreign countries?

Not if it involves the most heinous crimes imaginable … IMO.

Is this the pivot, that child trafficking and abuse is just a necessary part of global politics?

 

[ricc505]

So….. we shouldn’t be gathering intelligence in foreign countries?

The CIA and mossad shouldn't be operating on such a way that uses young women honey pots to blackmail powerful Americans. The CIA is a disgrace to America

 

[UberHere]

The CIA and mossad shouldn't be operating on such a way that uses young women honey pots to blackmail powerful Americans. The CIA is a disgrace to America

I agree, but we need an intelligence gathering agency. We can’t do away with them.

 

[Stoic1]

I'd like to see this whole whole of cards fall and burn. Id like to see these rats turn on each other. But that would only happen if there was a chance at real punishment.

BTW Kash Pattel and a few others actively covering up in the DoJ need to go ahead and do the honorable thing.

 

[Otto!]

There are scumbags all over the world, not just the west. That being said, the handling of the Epstein files makes the US look like a corrupt banana republic.

 

[freakroor]

if you look at the whole earth as having a big line that splits it right down the middle into east and west, then sure i guess the west looks bad. but so does the east. the world is a messed up place . always has been.

historically speaking, this is probably the safest time in human history to be a child

 

[ocfightfan]

Look bad to who? Far worse scumbags in other countries? Whoever harms kids and other vulnerable people is truly evil. But here is a depressing fact, what Epstein and friends did and worse is going on all over the world since the dawn of time. That doesn't mean we should throw up our hands, but anyone who thinks that Epstein is unique or use it for their own personal political advantage (as opposed to truly principled outrage and action) is not some moral paragon themselves. Punish whoever did the crime or abetted them, and then also the people who do this shit around the world every day.

 

[italiamusica]

It makes this country look like bullshit.

If the government can't release unredacted Epstine files, for fear of the country's citizens rioting, then this doesn't deserve to be a civilized country, because we're not. This country is setup for rich nepo babies to rape kids and avoid jail time.