Does it take less time to be "black belt" level in no-gi BJJ?

[mixmaster staph]

Just my opinion. Submission grappling/wrestling is practiced without a gi. Is there such a thing a blackbelt lvl no gi? sure I guess? but All American D1 wrestlers with a few years of jiujitsu will give a casual Black belt a very hard time in a gi, No gi probably have the edge. So does that mean the wrestler with some BJJ is BB lvl in no gi ? BB LVL in NO GI is subjective and last time I trained no gi (yesterday) I did not see any belts

I was given my purple belt by Chris Brennan and I've put on a gi maybe 15-20 times ever. My coach has a black belt under Chris Brennan and he rarely puts the gi on. Are you going to now tell me that my belt under an IBJJF world champion isn't for BJJ? Do I not train BJJ? Is my coach not really a black belt?

This is all interesting and enlightening information to me, because apparently I'm training a different martial art to the one I thought I was training. How very strange.

 

[xMTDx]

You want to train without a gi and still grade? Train in Luta Livre. A bb in 'no gi bjj' will always be contentious but at least Luta Livre has its own longstanding grading system for sub grappling. And before BJJ Rage tells me to shut up about LL I'm again just pointing out why I switched and thats because I still wanted grading to aspire to but without the gi. NO GI belts are not generally accepted in BJJ circles and I agree with that as the gi makes up a majority of the art. So either stress less about being a certain belt or look up Luta Livre for a sub grappling system with a belt system.

 

[mixmaster staph]

Yeah, I don't think it takes as much mat time to get good at no-gi as it does GI. There are a lot fewer techniques available and you can make up for a bigger technical deficit with speed and strength, as compared to GI. I don't see how this is even controversial.

What does "get good at" mean? Are you implying that the skill ceiling is lower in no-gi than it is in gi? Are you suggesting that the best no-gi grapplers aren't as good at no-gi as the best gi grapplers are at gi?

I think it's an interesting thing to say, and I don't know the answer. But I don't think you know the answer either. But it is an interesting question.

I mean, it might seem as though no-gi doesn't take as long to get good at because you don't train as much no-gi as someone who only trains no-gi. If everyone at your gym only trains, say, a day of no-gi per week, it's not going to take a great deal of time for someone who's new to catch up to the same amount of mat time in no-gi if he trains it every day. Of course, he's not going to have the experience of the gi, but it'll be skewed for you in your head because, hey, this guy's new. But this new guy now has the same number of hours doing no-gi as you, and your gi skills aren't 100% transferable, so your edge over him isn't as big as you feel it should be.

Or maybe I'm just not as technical as you guys.

 

[xMTDx]

The idea that no gi is easier to pick up than gi is a myth. Gi is based on grips, no gi based on clinch. Gi standup relies heavily on its judo background or guard pulling, whereas most no gi/LL standup is heavily wrestling driven which is not any 'easier' to pick up by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[lechien]

Yeah. Well amazing that techniques defeat strength only in bjj gi. But the same principle does not apply to bjj Nogi!

 

[joeytriangles]

While there may be less guards and therefore less passes to learn/master in no gi, people still need to learn how to manipulate balance, amplify weight/pressure, eliminate space, transitioning between moves, etc. These are the things in BJJ (whether gi or nogi) that set the less experienced and more experienced grapplers apart.

 

[lowdown1]

I was given my purple belt by Chris Brennan and I've put on a gi maybe 15-20 times ever. My coach has a black belt under Chris Brennan and he rarely puts the gi on. Are you going to now tell me that my belt under an IBJJF world champion isn't for BJJ? Do I not train BJJ? Is my coach not really a black belt?

This is all interesting and enlightening information to me, because apparently I'm training a different martial art to the one I thought I was training. How very strange.

do you have shorts with the belt on it so everyone knows your a purple belt when you roll no gi? It makes no diffrance what belt you are No GI that's the point. Black belt lvl is subjective. Most really good no gi guys started and have legit GI black belts then moved on to no gi for whatever reason. My coach has a no gi style and favors no gi but still trains in a gi every day. I'm a 3 stripe purple in a gi but we have a d1 wrestler who's a blue belt who destroys me no gi. He also had a 6 min go with my coach and neither could get a takedown. So my coach should hand him a blackbelt maybe? your calling my coaches ranks bullshit? I shouldn't be a purple belt either ? Haha... Ok bud

 

[Lasse]

Yeah. Well amazing that techniques defeat strength only in bjj gi. But the same principle does not apply to bjj Nogi!

I think your point rather answers "Is wrestling more like no-gi than Judo/sambo is like bjj".

 

[Calibur]

Why have a belt in a sport where you don't wear them?

Why?

Why even ask the question? Are you that insecure? Do you need to be identified by a piece of cloth? Do you need to tell people that you have a piece of cloth that you can't wear because you don't want to wear it's acompanying uniform because it's useless on teh str33tz?

If you like grappling, than shut up and grapple. Stop worrying about titles. Since when was "he's a really good grappler" not enough?

 

[lechien]

I think your point rather answers "Is wrestling more like no-gi than Judo/sambo is like bjj".

Nope.
It is common to think that the gi is the counter of the weaker against the stronger.
But I an a dreamer I guess.
I think there is enough techniques in bjj that you can use to counter strength with techniques regardless of gi or Nogi.
My project would be to train a white belt and never teach closed guard and only train Nogi,

 

[Lasse]

I never understood the thesis that in no-gi being stronger and having a better cardio is more advantageous than in the gi.

Personally my opinion is the complete opposite that in the gi it is easier for a bigger opponent to almost constantly have some grip that allows him to use his body-weight against you. In no-gi you only really have the opponents body-weight on top of you when you have already fucked up.

Am I the only one who thinks that?

 

[Lasse]

Nope.
It is common to think that the gi is the counter of the weaker against the stronger.
But I an a dreamer I guess.
I think there is enough techniques in bjj that you can use to counter strength with techniques regardless of gi or Nogi.
My project would be to train a white belt and never teach closed guard and only train Nogi,

Ahh you were being sarcastic. I didn't catch it before.

 

[joeytriangles]

Nope.
It is common to think that the gi is the counter of the weaker against the stronger.
But I an a dreamer I guess.
I think there is enough techniques in bjj that you can use to counter strength with techniques regardless of gi or Nogi.
My project would be to train a white belt and never teach closed guard and only train Nogi,

What guard would you teach primarily? Half? Butterfly?

I honestly think half (especially in nogi) is much better than closed guard, when facing a larger opponent.

 

[lechien]

What guard would you teach primarily? Half? Butterfly?

I honestly think half (especially in nogi) is much better than closed guard, when facing a larger opponent.

Butterfly guard first.
Then technical stand up right away if you lighter guy.
Otherwise, sweeps.
If he stand up, switch to x guard, single x guard,
Deep half would the bail out situAtion with waiter sweeps.

 

[lechien]

Ahh you were being sarcastic. I didn't catch it before.

Nah, I am serious.
I know a Korean guy that does not know closed guard.
His game is freaky.

 

[Lasse]

Nah, I am serious.
I know a Korean guy that does not know closed guard.
His game is freaky.

Didn't mean that part. I agree that the closed guard is a negative thing for beginners and is actually one of the most advanced guards in grappling.

It takes about 20 minutes to teach a beginner some basic DLR/RDLR/Butterfly sweeps/Sub chains which will allow him to instantly sweep his fellow beginner in live rolling if he enters DLR. Teaching the same beginner closed guard to a level where he will almost instantly sweep or submit his opponent with the same experience will take years and years.

 

[joeytriangles]

Butterfly guard first.
Then technical stand up right away if you lighter guy.
Otherwise, sweeps.
If he stand up, switch to x guard, single x guard,
Deep half would the bail out situAtion with waiter sweeps.

Nice. Footlocks off butterfly/ 1 leg x? Or traditional sweep, pass, submit?

 

[hotborsh]

Personally I liked nogi grappling more then gi bjj. It's just my preference, but unfortunately, there are no places to train nogi where i live. We have only 3 places where bjj is taught, and only at one place they do 1 nogi session a week, the other sessions are all in a gi. I undestand that the gi is a traditional part of the art, but i like the selfdefence part of the art, that's why i see nogi more practical, atleast for me. I understand that gi is used to simulate the clothes that you wear, but in reality in most of the time if you try to pull someone's jacket or shirt, like you would do in a gi, the clothes would just stretch and tear.Plus i don't see how can you choke someone when he's wearing a shirt or a sweater. That's why I see a nogi training an advantage in selfdefence. Maybe i'm wrong, but that's just my two cents.

 

[joeytriangles]

Personally I liked nogi grappling more then gi bjj. It's just my preference, but unfortunately, there are no places to train nogi where i live. We have only 3 places where bjj is taught, and only at one place they do 1 nogi session a week, the other sessions are all in a gi. I undestand that the gi is a traditional part of the art, but i like the selfdefence part of the art, that's why i see nogi more practical, atleast for me. I understand that gi is used to simulate the clothes that you wear, but in reality in most of the time if you try to pull someone's jacket or shirt, like you would do in a gi, the clothes would just stretch and tear.Plus i don't see how can you choke someone when he's wearing a shirt or a sweater. That's why I see a nogi training an advantage in selfdefence. Maybe i'm wrong, but that's just my two cents.

You can choke someone wearing a t-shirt just like if they were wearing a gi.

 

[lechien]

Nice. Footlocks off butterfly/ 1 leg x? Or traditional sweep, pass, submit?

Yeah, I forgot to include muy Thai clinch, arm drag, single and double leg takedown and arm drag. The work basically. You cans uchimata and drop seo Nage but I will reserve for gi class.