Does it take less time to be "black belt" level in no-gi BJJ?

[vcmmafan]

Compared to GI BJJ... Does it have significantly less to learn? Just curious.

 

[lowdown1]

BJJ is practiced in a gi.

 

[lechien]

The answer depends on each individual instructor issuing the black belt.

There is no such thing of black belt level however.

You have received a BB or not.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

The answer depends on each individual instructor issuing the black belt.

There is no such thing of black belt level however.

You have received a BB or not.

I disagree. It is true that the vast majority of BJJ instructors still consider gi training to be a fundamental component of the art, and that therefore to earn a black belt one must train in the gi. That said, it is certainly possible for someone who has never put on a gi to reach a level of skill at which he can hang with and defeat BJJ black belts in no-gi competition/training. That is what is meant by "black belt level" - that the person in question has a level of skill in no-gi submission grappling that is equivalent to the standard expected of a BJJ black belt. It doesn't mean the person deserves a black belt; it's just an easy and widely understood way of denoting the skill level of a no-gi submission grappler.

 

[mixmaster staph]

Compared to GI BJJ... Does it have significantly less to learn? Just curious.

No.

 

[mixmaster staph]

BJJ is practiced in a gi.

That's a pretty dumb thing to say.

 

[lechien]

I disagree. It is true that the vast majority of BJJ instructors still consider gi training to be a fundamental component of the art, and that therefore to earn a black belt one must train in the gi. That said, it is certainly possible for someone who has never put on a gi to reach a level of skill at which he can hang with and defeat BJJ black belts in no-gi competition/training. That is what is meant by "black belt level" - that the person in question has a level of skill in no-gi submission grappling that is equivalent to the standard expected of a BJJ black belt. It doesn't mean the person deserves a black belt; it's just an easy and widely understood way of denoting the skill level of a no-gi submission grappler.

ok, let split the post.

I am not even discussing the issue of the need for training gi in order to be called BJJ.

I am not dicussing if it is possible for someone to reach a level etc...

I just pointed out that you are either a BB or you are not.

There is no standard for a belt skills so saying that someone is such or such belt level is wrong.

 

[Lasse]

Each art has its problems and benefits. Simply put the benefit of No-Gi is that you spend less time in each position and the benefit of BJJ is that you spend more time in every position.

So you will get better at individual techniques if you do BJJ but better at technique "chains" if you do no-gi. So whoever does both will usually be the better grappler.

The biggest difference is in training quality though as in BJJ straight out bad coaches don't really exist but in no-gi a huge part of the gyms will be ran by coaches who does not have a "purple belt level" in BJJ:

So if you take 1000 avg BJJ students vs students with the same amount of mat-time who grapple no-gi then the BJJ students would slaughter the no-gi people.

 

[lowdown1]

That's a pretty dumb thing to say.

Just my opinion. Submission grappling/wrestling is practiced without a gi. Is there such a thing a blackbelt lvl no gi? sure I guess? but All American D1 wrestlers with a few years of jiujitsu will give a casual Black belt a very hard time in a gi, No gi probably have the edge. So does that mean the wrestler with some BJJ is BB lvl in no gi ? BB LVL in NO GI is subjective and last time I trained no gi (yesterday) I did not see any belts

 

[lechien]

Just my opinion. Submission grappling/wrestling is practiced without a gi. Is there such a thing a blackbelt lvl no gi? sure I guess? but All American D1 wrestlers with a few years of jiujitsu will give a casual Black belt a very hard time in a gi, No gi probably have the edge. So does that mean the wrestler with some BJJ is BB lvl in no gi ? BB LVL in NO GI is subjective and last time I trained no gi (yesterday) I did not see any belts

the problem is that nogi was this umbrella term for anything that was not BJJ.

but nowdays, IBJJF moved on past that hurdle and is now offering IBJJF NOGI BJJ competition.

So yes, nogi bjj exists.

I expect to see more and more people training only nogi bjj to compete in IBJJF rules.

 

[lowdown1]

it is certainly possible for someone who has never put on a gi to reach a level of skill at which he can hang with and defeat BJJ black belts in no-gi competition/training.

So lets say a Very well accomplished collage wrestler entered an expert div at the local turny. Wins that and wins Absolute hes a BLACKBELT LVL ??

 

[lowdown1]

the problem is that nogi was this umbrella term for anything that was not BJJ.

but nowdays, IBJJF moved on past that hurdle and is now offering IBJJF NOGI BJJ competition.

So yes, nogi bjj exists.

I expect to see more and more people training only nogi bjj to compete in IBJJF rules.

I know nogi bjj exists I was kind of being a Dick with my original response .. however the question of can I get to black belt lvl in a sport without ever embracing and actually training in it is irritating to me

 

[lechien]

I know nogi bjj exists I was kind of being a Dick with my original response .. however the question of can I get to black belt lvl in a sport without ever embracing and actually training in it is irritating to me

Nah, I dont think it was the query of TS.

I think he was asking if it was faster to get a BJJ NO GI BB level because there would be less techniques to learn.

 

[lowdown1]

now I feel like an elitist ass hat..... thanks lechien

 

[lechien]

ok, I think the same amount of time would be required.

nogi bjj is still very tricky.

heaps of techniques to master and use.

I can think of deep half guard, butterfly guard, 50/50, rlc, dlrv etc.

of course, less spider gaurd for obvious reasons.

less berimbolo but more beijao for example.

you just ended trading certains techniques to match the requirements.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

ok, I think the same amount of time would be required.

nogi bjj is still very tricky.

heaps of techniques to master and use.

I can think of deep half guard, butterfly guard, 50/50, rlc, dlrv etc.

of course, less spider gaurd for obvious reasons.

less berimbolo but more beijao for example.

you just ended trading certains techniques to match the requirements.

I dont agree...

I believe no gi, the technical disparities between belts its reduced dramatically.... Lets just put it this way, jared doop is not going to get by the first round of the mundials black belt division, no gi, he did pretty damn good at the last adcc.

Now in my personal experience, guys that absolutely destroy me in the gi, I can do much better no gi, some even beat them, but we put on the gi, and I feel like a white belt again...

 

[Calibur]

Reading this thread makes me angry, but I honestly have no idea who to be angry at. I don't know if I'm just getting old and crotchety, or if this forum is going through a dry spell, but I really am starting to hate actually talking about jiu jitsu.

 

[lechien]

Reading this thread makes me angry, but I honestly have no idea who to be angry at. I don't know if I'm just getting old and crotchety, or if this forum is going through a dry spell, but I really am starting to hate actually talking about jiu jitsu.

Come on.it has been a while since we had a gi vs Nogi. The funny part is that it is a bjj Nogi vs gi bjj this time.

 

[redaxe]

Yeah, I don't think it takes as much mat time to get good at no-gi as it does GI. There are a lot fewer techniques available and you can make up for a bigger technical deficit with speed and strength, as compared to GI. I don't see how this is even controversial.

 

[lechien]

I dont agree...

I believe no gi, the technical disparities between belts its reduced dramatically.... Lets just put it this way, jared doop is not going to get by the first round of the mundials black belt division, no gi, he did pretty damn good at the last adcc.

Now in my personal experience, guys that absolutely destroy me in the gi, I can do much better no gi, some even beat them, but we put on the gi, and I feel like a white belt again...

Of yeah like that li bb that won at Nogi but not in gi.
Ok I get it.