Opinion Does anyone here believe that Saudi Arabia is becoming Western?

[Sara]

Do I think they are evolving? Yes, but like much like evolution it’s going to take them a few thousand years to become more "westernized"

 

[Ophydian]

Western? No and I'd not want them to be "western". I wouldn't want a McDonald's right next to the Kaaba.

Now if they just adopted a few liberal values like secularism and equality regardless of sex, race or religion, now that would be something.

Regardless of the above this is just smoke and mirrors public relations bs. My optimistic nature wants to say it's baby steps towards progress, but those in power seldom relinquish any of their control mechanisms without a kick in the ass, or without said liberal thinking.

Their McDonalds sucks. They have chicken Big Macs and the lettuce, don't even get me started.

 

[Ophydian]

MBS knows that Saudis are spending their money outside of the country where genders can mix. They leave on weekends to Bahrain and the UAE to spend their money.

Saudi authoruties know that to pay for their grand plan of building a city/research center outside of Jeddah, then they need to raise more money internally. The way to do that is to entice Saudis to stay put on weekends, holidays, and vacations and spend their money domestically.

As an Emirati friend told me "Saudi women have been driving for years.....here in the UAE."

The "westernization" of Saudi Arabia is an economic ploy, not a social plan.

I always get a kick out of flying in from Dubai. No Hijab on the flight. 15 minutes before landing, hijabs everywhere.

 

[TeTe]

So, just a simple question.

What country would you rather be a female in?

Iran or SA?

I mean obviously neither, but gun to the head, who you choosing?

Well in Iran they still don't allow women in soccer stadiums there and stone them to death for having premarital sex so there that. Not to mention hanging people for being gay.

 

[RoJo303]

Saudis only job is to be controlled opposition. Their purpose is to breed and help terrorists, much like Israel helps out Isis and does not consider them a threat. The friends of the neocons are radical terrorists, and their enemies are stable, strong and moderate Islamic countries.

 

[Fluffernutter]

FWIW, after reading the opening to this thread, I assumed the author of article was Nicholas Kristof.

I had a beer with a woman who worked a lot in South Sudan. She discussed how Kristof makes her job harder becuase this is a typical day in Kristof's life:

Tribe A and Tribe B are fighting. Tribe A gives access to Kristof and gives him a tour and first hand knowledge of the conflict.

Kristof then pens an essay that is skewed in favor for Tribe A.

I am not sure if he understands he is being manipulated or if he is fine being a PR piece for fighting factions as long as it gives him access.

 

[RoJo303]

Well in Iran they still don't allow women in soccer stadiums there and stone them to death for having premarital sex so there that. Not to mention hanging people for being gay.

The devil is usually in the details tho:

"https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-publicly-hangs-man-on-homosexuality-charges-578758"

In typical neocon propaganda fashion, turns out the dude that was hung for being gay actually kidnapped and raped two 15 year olds. He was not hung for being gay but the other stuff. Still does not stop the propaganda forces for letting click bait go to waste. And plus, any offense Iran commits, the House Of Saudi does x 100.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Whenever I read positive articles about KSA, I wonder when the other foot will drop.

Women can drive! But, we will arrest the activists that made it happen.

We have movie theaters that show western movies! But, we kill journalists.

Coffee shops are coed! So, what's going to be the bad news follow up?

 

[Sara]

So, just a simple question.

What country would you rather be a female in?

Iran or SA?

I mean obviously neither, but gun to the head, who you choosing?

Neither, best case scenario is I’m one of the Prince's wives, worst case I have been stoned to death for something like being short.

 

[Mendacious]

Sounds like you're promoting violence against women.

It’s not really violence if it’s against your property

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Well in Iran they still don't allow women in soccer stadiums there and stone them to death for having premarital sex so there that. Not to mention hanging people for being gay.

Isn't sodomy/homosexuality punishable by death in SA?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Well in Iran they still don't allow women in soccer stadiums there and stone them to death for having premarital sex so there that. Not to mention hanging people for being gay.

But do they still crucify people when they put them to death?

Because Saudi Arabia does.

You read that right. Our "ally" literally still crucifies people in a act by the state.

 

[Sara]

It’s not really violence if it’s against your property

So you wouldn’t protect your property with force if needed
.

 

[TeTe]

But do they still crucify people when they put them to death?

Because Saudi Arabia does.

You read that right. Our "ally" literally still crucifies people in a act by the state.

Fuck if I know. Sounds like a bad time all around.

 

[tramendous]

if by western you mean modern, then sure.

 

[Sara]

Honestly stoned to death, crucified, neither seems like a very good option for capitol punishment. I mean they also just throw people off tall buildings.
Should these countries with the resources for lethal injection go back to firing squad or hanging?

 

[Mendacious]

So you wouldn’t protect your property with force if needed
.

No, I would. Just because I hypothetically have the right to damage my property doesn’t give you the right to take it.

 

[Fazz]

Honestly stoned to death, crucified, neither seems like a very good option for capitol punishment. I mean they also just throw people off tall buildings.
Should these countries with the resources for lethal injection go back to firing squad or hanging?

Are you sure people are thrown of roofs and stoned to death in Saudi? I know crucifixions have happened for crimes like terrorism/murder, but haven’t seen much of the other stuff.

 

[Fazz]

Western? No and I'd not want them to be "western". I wouldn't want a McDonald's right next to the Kaaba.

Now if they just adopted a few liberal values like secularism and equality regardless of sex, race or religion, now that would be something.

Regardless of the above this is just smoke and mirrors public relations bs. My optimistic nature wants to say it's baby steps towards progress, but those in power seldom relinquish any of their control mechanisms without a kick in the ass, or without said liberal thinking.

At the point I think its safe to say MBS is a secularist. And he wants to move the country in that direction.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

The Saudi Monarchy understands that their oil won't give them a free ride forever.

They are aiming to transform their country into a modern tourism economy and wish to attract the most wealthy travelers. That's westerners.

Money talks folks, the facts are that Saudi Arabia is becoming progressive.

But most of their desert population are tongue wagging, uneducated radical Sunnis muslims who beat women so they have to implement changes in a nuanced and incremental way so it'll take a while. Saudi Royalty have spoken about this on film.

So pulling out your hair about this article isn't wise if you ask me.

This cafe thing is a big deal.