Does a gain in weight mean a better CHIN?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Inigo Montoya, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. Inigo Montoya

    Inigo Montoya ...............

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    The OP is about Alistair Overeem, but the thread is about the question in the title and less about Overeem.

    There are two main questions that need to be asked:
    1. On average, how much harder does a HW fighter hits in compassion to a LHW fighter?
    2. How much does a fighter's hitting tolerance (Chin) improve while gaining weight?

    As for the first question, it's easy to see why the bigger the fighter, the harder he hits.
    More weight behind the punch means more power. Obviously there are freaks of nature in every division
    (LHW's that hits harder than most HW) but this are exception to the rule.

    As for the second question, that's a bit more controversial.
    One the one hand a fighter can gain muscle almost every where, but he obviously can't grow muscle on the chin.
    One the other hand, is someones "chin" only consists of his chin? Or is it also neck and shoulder muscles that adds to the equation?

    I believe muscles have a lot to do with it and Overeem's neck and shoulder muscles have become gigantic,
    but does it really cover the gap in the power differences between the divisions?

    Overeem had been stopped by several LHW in his career, most notably Chuck, Lil nog, Shogun and Arona (No shame in any of those loses).
    And as far as i can remember, in his short HW career no one hit him flush.

    This is not a thread about Overeem's chin. At least not in the conservative "Is it good or bad?" kind of way.
    What i'm trying to ask is does Overeem have any disadvantage, considering his opponents power, combined with his history of being smaller and being stopped by smaller guys (Smaller than his current opponents)?

    Discuss..
    PS, please be kind with any grammar mistakes. It's not my first language.
     
  2. bjrushpenn

    bjrushpenn Green Belt

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    What is this... I don't even
     
  3. cambo78

    cambo78 Silver Belt

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    A gain in weight means having a double chin, not a "better" chin.
     
  4. SnowBlynd

    SnowBlynd Red Belt

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    It has more to do with your skull structure. I guess the extra muscle would help stabilize your head but not much
     
  5. BrizzoBoi

    BrizzoBoi Green Belt

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    Probably the reason Roy didn't get KO'd by Werdums knee
     
  6. Enigma87

    Enigma87 Black Belt

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    I think its hard to tell much harder their punching power is. It seems like the technique behind throwing strikes has almost as much to do with its power as the weight of the person throwing it. It would be cool to take averages from several fighters in each division and average them out.

    As for the second question, being in good shape seems to let you take a harder punch more than how much you weigh. There are good points you and some others on other posts have made about muscles of heavier men though, it wouldn't surprise me if larger muscles around the head and the upper back help take away some of the head snap that often happens to fighters when they are hit hard. I do not believe that it makes much of a ddifference though
     
  7. JayElectra

    JayElectra Paper Belt Banned

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    It is generally thought that strengthening the muscles in and around the neck and jaw area can improve your chin. Marvin Hagler supposedely had abnormally big temporalis muscles which contributed to his incredible chin and for a long time in boxing, strengthening the neck and surrounding muscles has been something stressed by trainers. This isn't really an exact science, though.

    Here is a video where George Chuvalo (a man never floored at HW even though he fought some massive punchers) attempts to explain his chin.

     
  8. crpowell480

    crpowell480 Orange Belt

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    your grammar sucks, Im jk it's actually probably better than mine and this IS my only language. To relate to your question I think it has more to do with cutting weight. I agree shoulder and neck muscles probably have something to with it, but dehydrating yourself after a grueling training camp and depriving your body of nutrients the night before battle has gotta hve an effect on your ability to take a hit
     
  9. SeattleFightFan

    SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

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    too much. and try the K-1 or Kickboxing forums.

    a) do lighter guys hit harder? Force = Mass * Velocity. It's math. add accuracy too, cuz as every golfer knows, accuracy is important too. but anyone who nails you accurately can put you to sleep. so much of it is being in a position of not eating an accurate shot. Chuck dropped him after he gassed (sadly - the fight hadn't been going that long) and Sergei just manhandled him. he's so fucking big now that people have a harder time getting to his head, except Werdum, and none of those shot were going to hurt him.

    b) do bigger muscles in the neck help? i think so. ask the boxing or K-1 folks they might know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  10. effedup

    effedup Silver Belt

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    I guess it could be considered like this as a key component outside of having the genetics is to build up your traps and surrounding muscles. So the more muscle you have there the better you can absorb a blow.
     
  11. Graniteeyed

    Graniteeyed How is my avatar actually better than yours?

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    Watch the second Shogun and arona fight again.


    Kharitonov and Werdum

    There's no proven, measurable way to link neck muscle growth with chin strength. Let's not confuse something that might help a little with an improvement that has clear, demonstrable and measurable effects. I can think of a half dozen guys off the top of my head with huge traps, SCMs, etc. and no chin to speak of.

    Besides, Reem's problem is as much or more because his heart. His natural reaction to getting punched in the face is not the same as someone like JDS.
     
  12. Texan6533

    Texan6533 Fastest Gun in the West

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    I've always thought strengthening the neck muscles helped a fighter not get his head snapped too much when they get hit on the chin. Alistair's traps and neck muscles seemed to have doubled in size since his LHW days so I wouldn't doubt they have helped with his "chin".
     
  13. Rollotomassi

    Rollotomassi Banned Banned

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    No. You can't change your chin. In fact going up in weight would make your chin appear not as good because you're getting hit by larger men. The one thing people don't realize sometimes is the cut sometimes takes a fighters chin away. A water depleted fighter is subject to being ko'ed much easier.
    That is all.
     
  14. Hanoi Rox

    Hanoi Rox Black Belt

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    A lot of guys in boxing with great chins have said they worked their neck muscles to help take punch better. That's not proof that neck muscles help you chin, but there seems to be a correlation.
     
  15. Rollotomassi

    Rollotomassi Banned Banned

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    Can't hurt That's for sure. But effects would be negligable.

    Some people can just take a punch. Some can't.
     
  16. OldManGrip

    OldManGrip Brown Belt

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    well manhoef who is mw ko'd hunt, i duno how big the gap is between being hit by a mw/lhw vs a hw though. Interesting question
     
  17. Igorreboucas

    Igorreboucas Orange Belt

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    That's a good question, i was thinking about it some days ago. We see many LW's and WW's with heavy hands, knocking out a lot of opponents, i was thinking that if they land this shots against one HW, will they knock the HW's the same way that they did against that guys on their same weigh?
    I think chin is a genetic question, someone can take more hits than another... Of course that some muscle improvements could help, mainly in neck and shoulder... but the big question is genetic.
    Talking about Overeem, now he's very big and he always dominates his opponents, so he isn't taking a lot of punches, such he got when he was LHW, in my opnion that's the reason for this supposed improvement of chin. When Overeem fights a big guy who has good standup skills and a heavy hand ( JDS for example ) we will see his bad chin again.
     
  18. ocfightfan

    ocfightfan Gold Belt

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    I think you are right TS.

    Here's the greatest chin in boxing history on the subject.

     
  19. slavomir

    slavomir Brown Belt

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    You can strenghten your chin a bit by the right training. But you cant turn an average chin into iron chin.
     
  20. Why So Serious

    Why So Serious Purple Belt

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