Do you want a meritocracy?

[ocean size]

The guaranteeed basic income...Hayek, Friedman and even Nixon were for it or a similar reverse income tax. Libertarians liked the idea because it would cut down on govt interference.

Shows you how far the right has moved. I have a feeling though that in this election cycle people might start realizing some of these so called 'far left' 'socialist' ideas aren't as out there or incompatible with conservatism or libertarianism as they try to tell you.

 

[IDL]

The animosity towards the concept of churches providing charity to people is weird.

I can see thinking that it would not suffice, and that there are additional supports that should be looked at, but to actually attack the concept is bizarro.

 

[ripskater]

Or maybe come to church and get killed by a racist nutjob.

What?

 

[ocean size]

And rip, a free meal is all well and good, but unless the church is providing the kid with everything he needs to give him the same start as every other kid, we won't have a true meritocracy. You can call it what you want, but we won't all be solely products of our own merit.

 

[UpaLoompa]

The animosity towards the concept of churches providing charity is weird.

I can see thinking that it would not suffice, and that there are additional supports that should be looked at, but to actually attack the concept is bizarro.

Churches have typically tied behavioral compliance and subservience as a condition of assistance. Given your unflagging and internally consistent opposition to top down behavioral modification and social engineering I'd think you too would attack the concept.

 

[ripskater]

The animosity towards the concept of churches providing charity to people is weird.

I can see thinking that it would not suffice, and that there are additional supports that should be looked at, but to actually attack the concept is bizarro.

That's probably how it used to be. And people probably helped their neighbor out before welfare.

 

[ripskater]

And rip, a free meal is all well and good, but unless the church is providing the kid with everything he needs to give him the same start as every other kid, we won't have a true meritocracy. You can call it what you want, but we won't all be solely products of our own merit.

Life is not fair. It starts with the family and parents. So many kids don't have a dad to raise them and provide.

 

[Higus]

What would a pure meritocracy even look like? You'd have to be stripped from your parents at a young age and given the same education, upbringing and diet as everyone else to make sure that everyone started from the same place. That's the only way you could ensure that everyone made it to where they were by their own merit and without outside influence. Sounds like a dystonia fiction.

 

[IDL]

Churches have typically tied behavioral compliance and subservience as a condition of assistance. Given your unflagging and internally consistent opposition to top down behavioral modification and social engineering I'd think you too would attack the concept.

I'm not against Churches providing meals to people in need. I see the benefit. People helping people is a good thing and it encourages self reliance IMO.

You can bring up additional issues that you have outside of that, which is fine.

 

[ripskater]

Fix family and fix parenting, you fix the world.

 

[ocean size]

Life is not fair. It starts with the family and parents. So many kids don't have a dad to raise them and provide.

But we can make life more fair or at least make the starting line for life more even. Your church can't do that on a large scale for everyone.

 

[ehtheist]

The animosity towards the concept of churches providing charity to people is weird.

I can see thinking that it would not suffice, and that there are additional supports that should be looked at, but to actually attack the concept is bizarro.

It really is, and it's taken to a grand scale with the Catholic church and charity globally and in Africa specifically. It is literally the single most charitable organization, provides more meals and education than any other non-state organization in the world, but how people react to it? "DOWN WITH THE BABY RAPISTS!" with no plan for filling the void if they ever were stopped. Sure there is a dash of social engineering thrown in with that education and the meals, but when is that not the case?

 

[IDL]

That's probably how it used to be. And people probably helped their neighbor out before welfare.

Yeah people tend to default to a statist position on things like this. There should be more peer to peer helping as oppose to defaulting to the state in my view. But there is a place for both.

 

[ocean size]

Fix family and fix parenting, you fix the world.

Those don't occur in a vaccuum. Fix the crippling cycle of poverty and you might have a start.

 

[Awesomesauce]

I see so how will the church's pay for all these people, they won't be getting that much from their members. Unless of course they must enact some sort of levee on its parish, a tax if you will to take care of the less fortunate members. What a novel system. Too bad we don't have a real world equivalent. . .

This is sarcasm right? Tithing is supposed to be 10%.

 

[ripskater]

But we can make life more fair or at least make the starting line for life more even. Your church can't do that on a large scale for everyone.

Govt can't either. Look at urban black communities.

 

[UpaLoompa]

I'm not against Churches providing meals to people in need. I see the benefit. People helping people is a good thing and it encourages self reliance IMO.

You can bring up additional issues that you have outside of that, which is fine.

Wow, amazing, an example of you not being logically consistent. Who would have thought!

 

[IDL]

Wow, amazing, an example of you not being logically consistent. Who would have thought!

You're really trying hard to shoehorn your little attacks into the discussion.

There can be issues with churches, and also good things. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

 

[UpaLoompa]

That's probably how it used to be. And people probably helped their neighbor out before welfare.

Not recently.

 

[ripskater]

Those don't occur in a vaccuum. Fix the crippling cycle of poverty and you might have a start.

Yeah you need hope and opportunity too. I give you that OS

You can't just throw money at it either. We see that in urban black communities also.