Do you think there is a current fighter that can bump off one of the four horsemen GOAT group?

[Cameron]

It can't be Alex because he would never beat Jon and will at best be the second best light heavy weight. My vote is Islam.

 

[forsh]

Why is Fedor in the top five? Being a UFC champion should be a non-negotiable criterion

PRIDE was the number one MMA organization in the world -- bigger than the UFC at the time. Being PRIDE champion meant as much or more than being UFC champion.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Lol

The only legend in Alex resume is Izzy
Jiri, Hill, Blaho and Routree would not be in LHW top5 of years ago

Okay which "legends" has islam beat? Money moicano and Dookie dan hooker?

Or was it charles "10 losses in the UFC already" Oliveria?

 

[TempleoftheDog]

None of them are gettin bumped off. Except Jones' asterisk pulling him down. BJ Penn used to be in the 4th spot instead of him.

Poatan might very well retire undefeated, but there arent alot of great fighters for him to fight in his era. Adesanya still the best guy he beat.

Alex is not undefeated. He literally lost his mma debut. Meaning he was 0 - 1. And he lost to Izzy, in the UFC. He is now 12 - 2.

Unless you mean he may retire without losing again? Like GSP did.

 

[chinarice]

Jones and Silva are disqualified. Replace them with DJ and Aldo. That being said, I voted Islam, and he's only a couple wins away from doing it.

Why would they be disqualified anymore than Islam? Because of technicalities?

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Nog was the only non unidimensional fighter who Fedor defeated

"Unidimentional Fighters" is not a criteria I use when determining GOAT status. Regardless of style... if a potential GOAT goes on to beat another top contender AFTER losing to teh GOAT... then I count it. This is my way of weeding out wins of those who were past their prime. (in this case I gave Fedor 1 GOAT point for Coleman 1, but no GOAT point for Coleman 2... for example) iow... It's really hard to deny someone a GOAT point if the person they beat... went on to beat another top contender.

Damn, you got me digging out my old notes. I've been having this GOAT discussion for a long time. I did an incredibly deep dive on Fedor back in teh day to wind oop wit my current pov that he is indeed worthy of GOAT status.

I only considered his winz vs top competition that went on to beat other top competition after Fedor fought them. This is important, & playz a massive roll in my personal tally. In other wordz... if Fedor beat someone at teh top, who then did nothing after... then they were not counted. Only top competition that went on to beat more top competition after Fedor beat them.

I hope that makes sense, because it is a very logical process I meticulously calculated. It wasn't all data either... I re-watched teh fights & made sure of what I was calculating. note that all who I gave Fedor a GOAT point for didn't go to UFC, but someone like Arona in his prime beat others who did. Also note that Fedor waz by far the most difficult fighter I've had to incorporate into my GOAT counting system... for the very reason that he didn't go into the UFC. I took this very seriously.

Here are my "GOAT notes" for Fedor using the above criteria, who sits just under Jones for me in my count:

Fedor = 9 – Arona, Herring, Big Nog (Twice) , Cro Cop, Hunt, Arlovski, Sobrol, Coleman I (not 2) (Monson wasn't counted, but was always right there at the gate but never really broke through. Shout out to 60 wins). (This was one of the trickiest lists to develop) (Must consider his run as a multiple Sambo world champ during his GOAT run that the others didn’t have. That's impressive)

Obviously Herring sticks out as questionable, but he waz a big deal when Fedor fought him. there's so many guyz like that on teh fence that we can use to at least support Fedor's legitimacy, but for sure the guyz on his list that went on to become teh major gate keepers of teh UFC's HW division under lord Cain are all legit.

Once Stipe took over in teh UFC... teh old guard started to crumble & Fedor had been long out of his prime & so I don't consider Fedor's lackluster performances during his decline... in any GOAT discussion. It's more important to me what people did in their prime... & more important than that, is that the person teh GOAT beat... went on to beat another top contender after that loss... which verifies that person was not washed up. (Note: that's why I gave Fedor a GOAT point... for Coleman 1 but not Coleman 2)

I can go on & on with this... but hopefully that makes enough sense to understand the logic I've used in my very carefully considered pov.

Here'z my raw GOAT points as of way back in teh day before I stopped calculating it. Imo... Jones gets another GOAT point because Gain waz teh champ when he fought him. Aldo probably gets another GOAT point or 2, but I haven't re-calculated it since his come-back.

Jones = 9 – HW champ, Shogun, Bader, Machida, Vitor, Gus1 (not Gus 2), Teix, Lionheart, & DC (DC Once… the 2nd one he cheated) (Gus just got dun beating Teix before Jones 2 which is a helluva win, but he didn't look the same vs Jones & he certainly didn't after. It's a tough call that could be debated but for now I'm not giving him one.)(I really question Lionhearts win over Gus being proof that he's over the gate because clearly something's gone missing in Gus, but atm I gave it to him & by extension, Jones' GOAT point) - (keep an eye on Reyes, & Santos to show whether they're really top competition as this division shakes out, I could be convinced or not. The new look of the division is very difficult to access, because there's no real gate atm. All these guys that were under the gate all of a sudden moved into the top spots. At least Lionheart beat a former gate keeper. I think Jones will get 1 or 2 more points with time. Reyes didn't look good at all though vs Jan so he's an even bigger question than Santos)

Fedor = 9 – Arona, Herring, Big Nog (Twice) , Cro Cop, Hunt, Arlovski, Sobrol, Coleman I (not 2) (Monson always right there at the gate but never really broke through. Shout out to 60 wins). (This was one of the trickiest lists to develop) (Must consider his run as a multiple Sambo world champ during his GOAT run that the others didn’t have.)

GSP = 9 –Karo, Heiron, Mayhem, Sherk, Fitch, Shieds, Condit, Hendricks, Hughes (but the 2nd Hughes win I'm hard pressed to count due to Hughes not looking all there & proving that point by losing a lot after that & fighting people about to retire.) (Bisping had the belt at the time so that’s a strong case for another GOAT point, but he didn't look that good against a slower GSP & got ktfo in his next fight. I also thought Hendo took the belt from Bisping) (shoutout to an undersized Penn)

Aldo = 8 (9) – (need to update latest run) Cub, Uriah, Lamas, Jung, Edgar (twice) Mendez (twice) (I'm not going to argue with someone if they think Aldo won that Marlon Moraes fight.)(keep an eye on Renato Moicano Carneiro to prove he's top competition then re-watch Aldo fight. He seems like he's just under the gate, but maybe I'm under-estimating him. His win against Katter being his biggest claim to fame)



Spider = 8 – Horn, Franklin (twice), Marquardt, Maia, Belfort, Chael, Hendo (Brunson & Leben are both tough calls because they were kind of the gate keepers "just under the gate"... to the top of the division & they kept a lot of good guys beat back but neither of them quite got past the gate themselves. So shout out for both of those wins but I don't think he gets the GOAT point.)(No GOAT point for Spider’s Newton win due to him stalling on the ground to create that standup that won him the fight. He even got the yellow card.)

Couture - 8 –Vitor x2, Horn, Randleman, Rizzo x2, Liddell, Tito (Couture was a 2 division champ) (could give him a shout for Tim Silvia who didn't look good at all & went on to prove something went missing... but he did have the belt when Couture fought him.) (Gonzaga went on to beat Ben Rothwell but that's a little to little too late. That was cool the way Gabe KO'ed CroCop, but it was the hype from that win that got him the title shot. After seeing CroCops following record in the cage I'm not sure it was even justified so it's hard to give a GOAT point for that)

Sakuraba = 7 - Conan, Vernon White, Carlos Newton, Belfort, 90 min Royce followed by HW Igor fight (that he threw down in), Rampage, Randleman (I have a pretty detailed breakdown about his career that I wrote out while working on this list... but with Conan & Vernon both being mid-tier fighters with only one considerable win vs "fairly" top competition after fighting Saku, it should be noted that Saku gets their GOAT point due to that + the weight difference + a masterful performance throwing it over the top.) (I have a further breakdown on Saku that is amazingly impressive)

Stipe = 7 - Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Reem, JDS, Ngannou, DC 2 (not DC3, DC said he was going to wrestle & then gassed after one attempt... clearly beyond his prime in his retirement fight... plus the Eye poke makes me question a GOAT point too - Karma right... lol)

DC = 7 - "prime & juiced" Bigfoot, Barnett, Rumble 1 (not 2), Gus, Volkan, Black Beast, Stipe (DC was a 2 division champ) (shout out to MW Hendo & Spider) (I wouldn't fight too much if someone dismissed Volkan at this point) (Black Beast could be questioned but he's been on the upper side of the gate holding everyone back & say what you want about the way he moves... the man gets results. I give it to DC's talent for making it look fairly easy)

Mouse = 7 - Benevidez (twice), Dodson (twice), Moraga, Kyoji, Cejudo (keep an eye on Borg) His later run should be calculated, but after his move to ONE... it's hard to add anything in here.