Social Do you think the all the best actors or musicians get discovered?

[mozfonky]

It's easier to put your stuff out and get noticed worldwide due to the internet.

less ass to kiss but it's pointless today because of the devaluing of music and there's way too much out there, way too much. It's kinda good, the world doesn't need anymore asshole musicians, I've known a lot of musicians and even when they're nothing they're vain and narcissistic, it's tired. And the business people who pontificate and act like they know and hold the keys to everything, it's good their out of a job, they never did the work, they are the big cons of the business for the most part.

 

[mozfonky]

No, not even close. Billy Corgan talked about it on Rogan a couple weeks ago. He said there were a lot of bands that came up with Smashing Pumpkins and he can't believe they never made it. I've also heard that about the LA scene in the late 80s. I think luck and promotion has a lot to do with it.

Corgan is one of the more realistic voices about the business I've heard, he's bitter and wounded by it but that's really how things are run. Most people who accomplish what he has kinda cover up whatever wounds they sustained but he doesn't, kudos to him.

 

[JangoMike]

At least he gave us 2Pac…

Diddy giveth and he taketh

 

[mozfonky]

In the EARLY ADAPTOR PHASE.

So yes. People like Bieber, Jake Paul, Bo Burnham, who were all over YouTube BEFORE the whole world had become habitually linked to the platform, have reeped the rewards. Not all the different to a 2009 or so Bitcoin invester.

Bieber it would seem also had the privilege of being Diddies personal fleshlight... so, have fun with that.

yup, I keep saying, we don't know what these idiots gave up to get where they are and then have to live with themselves. It seems universal, they say top ammie boxers had to go through it too, Sugar Ray Leonard describes some benefactor who he sketchily details using him for his jollies. Apparently one of the olympic coaches from that era was also a , it's universal. It's good that light is being shined on some of these idiots that we stupidly worship from Bill Cosby to PDummy, who've done a lot of damage to people playing the "I can make you a star" game.

 

[mozfonky]

This is...a VERY diffiicult question. So I'll talk about what i know about; Horowitz, in my opinion the greatest artist of all time "escaped" Russia in 1925 with lloot in his shoes on a 6 month visa to study in Berlin. He didn't step foot anywhere near there for over SIXTY years.

And I'd put Cziffra on there as well; Born into the ghetto of Budapest at the end of WW1. Completely poor living in a 1 room shack with his family he learns the piano by ear and goes on to do things. He eventually gets conscripted by the german army during WW2, defects, and gets eventually arrested by the Soviets and sentenced to years in a labor camp. Most of his recs are after all of that shit. In fact, he probably has the absolute craziest piano technique in the history of recordings.



@Sweater of AV ya might like this if you've liked other music ive posted

don't know much about him and totally different world, I can admire those types. I've heard similar things about one of the big Hollywood producers who came from, I think it was Russia but he basically came to the US with nothing. Again, we don't know the shit these guys had to do to get where they were, are we gonna laud stealing, raping and killing someone's way to success. They couldn't have done everything nice and neat and get where they were. If you have to be a shitty person to get somewhere, what's it worth to you? How you answer that shows who you are. That's not directed at Horowitz per se, I don't know anything about him other than he was a master and usually it's not the artists who are the biggest bastards around, it's the people behind the scenes.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Absolutely not. There are quite a few talentless hacks that are popular for one reason or another.

 

[mozfonky]

Also, if you're really any good, you will be hated, people will say and do things to try to hurt you, so that has to be overcome. People constantly trying to tell you you aren't it, constantly. Elvis, Bruce Lee, Ali, etc.., all went through real insults and trials and made enemies who didn't even know them just because they shone too bright.

 

[mozfonky]

also, there is the cold hard fact, at least in music, that if you haven't made it by 25, you probably never will. Say what you want but 25 is young, no way every musician has peaked by that time , at least not instrumentally or vocally. Creatively? that's different, it's probably true that most genius' are best when they are young but for all the talk about Elvis' later years, that man was head and shoulders above what he could do on the first record sessions as a singer. Then, the argument is, that later stuff was just irrelevant culturally, which is kind of different.

That major thing with the under 25 thing though is just that that is the age where the image could be sold to dumb teens. I don't even know if any of that matters today though with how music is just becoming less and less meaningful to everyone.

 

[volodya]

don't know much about him and totally different world, I can admire those types. I've heard similar things about one of the big Hollywood producers who came from, I think it was Russia but he basically came to the US with nothing. Again, we don't know the shit these guys had to do to get where they were, are we gonna laud stealing, raping and killing someone's way to success. They couldn't have done everything nice and neat and get where they were. If you have to be a shitty person to get somewhere, what's it worth to you? How you answer that shows who you are. That's not directed at Horowitz per se, I don't know anything about him other than he was a master and usually it's not the artists who are the biggest bastards around, it's the people behind the scenes.

I doubt Horowitz killed anyone lol. He cheated in the fact he left Russia in 1925 on a six month visa, with cash hidden in his shoes, never intending to return. And then, in Berlin, he got "lucky" being a last minute replacement as soloist in the Tchaikovsky concerto and LIT IT UP. Eventually he collaborated with one of the greatest conductors ever and married his daughter.

 

[jeff7b9]

I'm with Jeff here.

People have no idea how many talented artists never make it big because they don't have the connections or the funding.

There's plenty of people not in LA who can silence a crowded bar and bring people to tears with nothing but a microphone and an acoustic guitar.

I had a friend in LA.

He played Alladin in Universal Studios as his day job.
Bought himself a house doing that, so good for him.


That guy was freakishly talented.

He could do improv comedy no joke no exaggeration on the level of "Whose Line Is It Anyway" he could sing on the level of a pro theater actor, he could act , he could write. Nice guy. Charming personality.
He could work the room.
Consummate pro. Responsible
No substance issues. Married.

He never really "broke thru"

He got on a few shows but never more than bit parts.

____________________

I could probably give examples similar for guitarists, drummers, singers, songwriters.

With the musicians, just my experience, but the GREAT players and songwriters loved MUSIC, not necessarily PROMOTING.
And you gotta pay the rent, so you need a job, so you are tired, commuting sucks and takes time.

You play an amazing show and the bar steals half your money, lies about how many people you brought. It's a fucked up business. I got ripped off a LOT. I literally had a Grammy winning artist pay me $250/song to write and produce songs and he would take the writing credit and the production credit and claim he did it all himself. Siavash Shams. Selfish narcissistic jackass. Phenomenal singer though, I'll give him that. I had a pop singer I played with that would do similar, steal musical ideas from the band that she couldn't come up with in a million years, take full writing credit for everything. That is SUPER common.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Historically that’s a loaded question but I’d say no.. however modern means of making music and easily being able to put it out there on multiple outlets without any outside help makes it much easier than it ever was before.


It also depends on the type of music. Being in an actual band is still going to come with an effort level and commitment that making beats on your PS5 and shitting it out to the world via Instagram and Tik Tok never will.

 

[moreorless87]

Historically that’s a loaded question but I’d say no.. however modern means of making music and easily being able to put it out there on multiple outlets without any outside help makes it much easier than it ever was before.

It also depends on the type of music. Being in an actual band is still going to come with an effort level and commitment that making beats on your PS5 and shitting it out to the world via Instagram and Tik Tok never will.

The thing is though do you actually make money from that? enough to sustain a career?

Also I'd say you have a filter even before that of simply having the time/money to build up your talent.

Most metrics I'v seen show the music industry has become increasingly social class dominated in recent decades which naturally means its drawing from a much smaller talent pool than it was say 40-50 years ago.

If grumpy old men want a reason to claim music really has declined in quality I think thats probably the best you could find, the music scene of the mid 20th century benefited from the greater equality of that era meaning a higher percentage of the population could potentially become involved.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

The thing is though do you actually make money from that? enough to sustain a career?

Also I'd say you have a filter even before that of simply having the time/money to build up your talent.

Most metrics I'v seen show the music industry has become increasingly social class dominated in recent decades which naturally means its drawing from a much smaller talent pool than it was say 40-50 years ago.

If grumpy old men want a reason to claim music really has declined in quality I think thats probably the best you could find, the music scene of the mid 20th century benefited from the greater equality of that era.

Isn’t one of today’s biggest stars a chick and her brother making music out of their bedroom..?


Billy Eilish or whatever

 

[mozfonky]

I doubt Horowitz killed anyone lol. He cheated in the fact he left Russia in 1925 on a six month visa, with cash hidden in his shoes, never intending to return. And then, in Berlin, he got "lucky" being a last minute replacement as soloist in the Tchaikovsky concerto and LIT IT UP. Eventually he collaborated with one of the greatest conductors ever and married his daughter.

Ya I doubt if he was a bad guy, just making a point about successful people in general.

 

[mozfonky]

I had a friend in LA.

He played Alladin in Universal Studios as his day job.
Bought himself a house doing that, so good for him.


That guy was freakishly talented.

He could do improv comedy no joke no exaggeration on the level of "Whose Line Is It Anyway" he could sing on the level of a pro theater actor, he could act , he could write. Nice guy. Charming personality.
He could work the room.
Consummate pro. Responsible
No substance issues. Married.

He never really "broke thru"

He got on a few shows but never more than bit parts.

____________________

I could probably give examples similar for guitarists, drummers, singers, songwriters.

With the musicians, just my experience, but the GREAT players and songwriters loved MUSIC, not necessarily PROMOTING.
And you gotta pay the rent, so you need a job, so you are tired, commuting sucks and takes time.

You play an amazing show and the bar steals half your money, lies about how many people you brought. It's a fucked up business. I got ripped off a LOT. I literally had a Grammy winning artist pay me $250/song to write and produce songs and he would take the writing credit and the production credit and claim he did it all himself. Siavash Shams. Selfish narcissistic jackass. Phenomenal singer though, I'll give him that. I had a pop singer I played with that would do similar, steal musical ideas from the band that she couldn't come up with in a million years, take full writing credit for everything. That is SUPER common.

Very common even from top stars.

 

[moreorless87]

Isn’t one of today’s biggest stars a chick and her brother making music out of their bedroom..?


Billy Eilish or whatever

Come from pretty well off backgrounds from the sound of it, the children of a couple of actors.

"Making music in your bedroom" still potentially needs money for the computer/softwere/mics/etc but perhaps more importantly it needs the time spent to do it, not so easy if your having to work overtime flipping burgers to pay the rent.

 

[mozfonky]

Come from pretty well off backgrounds from the sound of it, the children of a couple of actors.

Doesn't surprise me, also wasn't taylor swift from money?

 

[moreorless87]

Doesn't surprise me, also wasn't taylor swift from money?

Even going back a decade or more ago I remember seeing that around half of charting UK music acts had been to private schools growing up.

The film industry has I spose always tended to be a bit more middle/upper class and generally nepotistic but I think thats gotten worse in recent decades as well.

Again I think if you were looking for a reason why the mid 20th century was actually strong artistically generally you could make a case it was because a larger part of the population could potentially be involved, a bigger talent pool that today were its increasingly become the domain of the middle/upper classes.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

Come from pretty well off backgrounds from the sound of it, the children of a couple of actors.

"Making music in your bedroom" still potentially needs money for the computer/softwere/mics/etc but perhaps more importantly it needs the time spent to do it, not so easy if your having to work overtime flipping burgers to pay the rent.

They obviously still had to have the talent to write hits but the point of getting noticed due to multiple internet outlets instead of slogging away at dive bars and sleeping on strangers floors hoping you make it someday still exists where it didn’t used to exist.


Exposure is a big part of ‘making it’ and the avenues for that are no longer controlled by a select few.


You can go on YouTube right now in your jammyjams and become a star from your bedroom if you get enough clicks.

 

[Osculater]

Doesn't surprise me, also wasn't taylor swift from money?