Do you think Sagetdao is washed up?

[NoSmilez]

Thais don't even care about MMA...... It was illegal not too long ago. I can honestly tell you they don't give two shits about it. How many MMA gyms are there in Thailand for Thai people? Go find an MMA gym in Thailand that isn't catered to foreigners and without a revolving door student population. If you manage to find a gym then go look up the price of that gym. Go look up how much average salary is in Thailand. How many bjj schools are there in Thailand? Is there a wrestling program?

 

[Tayski]

Thais don't even care about MMA...... It was illegal not too long ago. I can honestly tell you they don't give two shits about it. How many MMA gyms are there in Thailand for Thai people? Go find an MMA gym in Thailand that isn't catered to foreigners and without a revolving door student population. If you manage to find a gym then go look up the price of that gym. Go look up how much average salary is in Thailand. How many bjj schools are there in Thailand? Is there a wrestling program?

Thais care about fighting and care about making money. The thing is it's usually easier to transition from MT to Boxing and Kickboxing for higher paychecks without doing something too different.

The price of MMA gyms and average salary of Thailand are quite irrelevant as usually fighters in Thailand don't pay a gym fee, they just give a share of their purse to the gym.

Where you're right though is that BJJ schools and specialists are scarce in Thailand, and there are not many MMA gyms. The fact that the sport was banned until not long ago is also a big factor.

 

[MMouse]

Eh put a thai up against someone with bjj and wrestling base, most of the time they'll get out mauled.

Grappling in MMA dictates the fight standing up or going to the ground.

Good muay thai skills is useless with out good grappling in MMA

 

[NoSmilez]

Thais care about fighting and care about making money. The thing is it's usually easier to transition from MT to Boxing and Kickboxing for higher paychecks without doing something too different.

The price of MMA gyms and average salary of Thailand are quite irrelevant as usually fighters in Thailand don't pay a gym fee, they just give a share of their purse to the gym.

Where you're right though is that BJJ schools and specialists are scarce in Thailand, and there are not many MMA gyms. The fact that the sport was banned until not long ago is also a big factor.

The issue with bjj is that it is a middle class sport. I am not sure if you know but the middle class in Thailand they take martial arts such as TKD and Judo. The guys who brought Muay Thai to England weren’t fighters at all. They were tkd guys and you can see it in their students.

The average Thai will not learn it as a hobby as a kid. The gym purse thing only matters for contracted fighters. Thais who don’t fight do train at Muay Thai at gyms but they pay a discounted rate. That option doesn’t exist for bjj since there aren’t any Thai instructors to my knowledge. The only other bjj spots are in mma schools. If a fighter’s contract is traded there. It is safe to say that they are shot or can’t make it to the big gyms.
In the end, it’s just money. Bjj doesn’t make money for them as a hobby and the ones that fight are poor.

 

[Tayski]

The issue with bjj is that it is a middle class sport. I am not sure if you know but the middle class in Thailand they take martial arts such as TKD and Judo. The guys who brought Muay Thai to England weren’t fighters at all. They were tkd guys and you can see it in their students.

The average Thai will not learn it as a hobby as a kid. The gym purse thing only matters for contracted fighters. Thais who don’t fight do train at Muay Thai at gyms but they pay a discounted rate. That option doesn’t exist for bjj since there aren’t any Thai instructors to my knowledge. The only other bjj spots are in mma schools. If a fighter’s contract is traded there. It is safe to say that they are shot or can’t make it to the big gyms.
In the end, it’s just money. Bjj doesn’t make money for them as a hobby and the ones that fight are poor.

I guess the only way it would work is learning BJJ as part of a MMA training programme to fight in MMA, which supposedly should be more money than fighting in MT anyway. A lot of MMA students and fighters learn BJJ at their MMA gym and are not going to fully dedicated BJJ centres to learn grappling.

Supposedly if MMA pays more than MT, surely the promoters and coaches would want to get that going. I think the issue is that in MT they recruit young kids, teach them to fight and have them fight from very young, something which I can't imagine would be happening with any current MMA organisation. So suddenly getting young kids and training them for something they'd only be able to do in late teenage years / as adults isn't so appealing I guess.

I think it may take quite a while to change a system like the MT system which is rooted in culture and tradition, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more MMA gyms opening up especially considering the ban was lifted not too long ago.

 

[NoSmilez]

I guess the only way it would work is learning BJJ as part of a MMA training programme to fight in MMA, which supposedly should be more money than fighting in MT anyway. A lot of MMA students and fighters learn BJJ at their MMA gym and are not going to fully dedicated BJJ centres to learn grappling.

Supposedly if MMA pays more than MT, surely the promoters and coaches would want to get that going. I think the issue is that in MT they recruit young kids, teach them to fight and have them fight from very young, something which I can't imagine would be happening with any current MMA organisation. So suddenly getting young kids and training them for something they'd only be able to do in late teenage years / as adults isn't so appealing I guess.

I think it may take quite a while to change a system like the MT system which is rooted in culture and tradition, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more MMA gyms opening up especially considering the ban was lifted not too long ago.

The thing regarding mma earning more might be true at a high level but it doesn’t pay at the local level. When they reach stadium fighting, they fight often and there are additional gym bets. MMA is still a fringe sport for them. There are no real local events for them to compete and It’s much easier to get a kickboxing or even a boxing fight overaeasz

 

[executionermma]

The thing regarding mma earning more might be true at a high level but it doesn’t pay at the local level. When they reach stadium fighting, they fight often and there are additional gym bets. MMA is still a fringe sport for them. There are no real local events for them to compete and It’s much easier to get a kickboxing or even a boxing fight overaeasz

ONE is always there, Pongsiri for example got signed to ONE fast and he wasn't anything special on MT as far as i know, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[NoSmilez]

ONE is always there, Pongsiri for example got signed to ONE fast and he wasn't anything special on MT as far as i know, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

He doesn’t really train mma. Team quest Thailand is a revolving door gym. People come for two weeks then bounce. He doesn’t have mma training partners except one Hawaiian fighter

 

[executionermma]

He doesn’t really train mma. Team quest Thailand is a revolving door gym. People come for two weeks then bounce. He doesn’t have mma training partners except one Hawaiian fighter

Then he should go to Tiger MT or to AKA Thailand, there's option there.. And my point is that ONE will sign Thais if they want to try MMA, they don't need to worry about lack of payment.

 

[NoSmilez]

Then he should go to Tiger MT or to AKA Thailand, there's option there.. And my point is that ONE will sign Thais if they want to try MMA, they don't need to worry about lack of payment.

He has kids.... He has a contract. He can’t just up and leave....

 

[Snubnoze707]

Eh put a thai up against someone with bjj and wrestling base, most of the time they'll get out mauled.

Grappling in MMA dictates the fight standing up or going to the ground.

Good muay thai skills is useless with out good grappling in MMA

Nobody denies that. The same can be said for any striking background. That doesn't mean that it isn't a good base however, provided those other skills are learned.

Really there isn't anything technically flawed about Muay Thai that would inhibit a transition. In fact they would have an advantage over other striking backgrounds in close quarter clinched up fighting. What could be argued is that the fight pace would need adjustment, as the first two rounds in Stadium Muay Thai are typically slow paced with a build up to rounds 3 and 4. Most people in MMA come out guns blazing in the first round, but you've seen Thai's that have adjusted to this in Kickboxing.

I find it hilarious that there is an argument that Thai's have tried and failed. We probably can't count beyond 10 that have tried ever, compared to thousands of Japanese/Americans/Brazilians etc, and it's also built into their culture where MMA is non existent in Thailand. I also find it amusing that this argument is specifically Thai Muay Thai fighters versus the world in their respective art. As if you don't see Muay Thai techniques being used in every single MMA card, or non-Thai's with Muay Thai backgrounds that are successful.

 

[MMouse]

Nobody denies that. The same can be said for any striking background. That doesn't mean that it isn't a good base however, provided those other skills are learned.

Really there isn't anything technically flawed about Muay Thai that would inhibit a transition. In fact they would have an advantage over other striking backgrounds in close quarter clinched up fighting. What could be argued is that the fight pace would need adjustment, as the first two rounds in Stadium Muay Thai are typically slow paced with a build up to rounds 3 and 4. Most people in MMA come out guns blazing in the first round, but you've seen Thai's that have adjusted to this in Kickboxing.

I find it hilarious that there is an argument that Thai's have tried and failed. We probably can't count beyond 10 that have tried ever, compared to thousands of Japanese/Americans/Brazilians etc, and it's also built into their culture where MMA is non existent in Thailand. I also find it amusing that this argument is specifically Thai Muay Thai fighters versus the world in their respective art. As if you don't see Muay Thai techniques being used in every single MMA card, or non-Thai's with Muay Thai backgrounds that are successful.

Muay Thai isnt a bad base but wrestling should be one of it's strongest attribute and one of the main prioritiy to go with everything else in MMA.

Which is why I said good muay thai + good wrestling is a good for mma.

We've never seen a stadium champion take their wrestling, grappling skill as far as someone like gsp or robert whittaker who had zero wrestling/bjj credentials to high competitive levels in MMA.

Reason? I'm not sure why tbh.

But most of the top guys in MMA have good wrestling and bjj if not have developed good wrestling and bjj.

 

[executionermma]

I don't think it's just the rhythm, it's also the MT stance. Too much of a invitation to takedowns. I think MT as a background can work, any discipline can, Barnett made catch wrestling work, there's a guy at the HW division fighting with a Sumo background and he's doing fairly well. There's a few things like all the clinch fighting and elbow techniques that are very useful, that's something to absorb from MT, but IMO MT as a overall style it's not a good one, needs many adaptations to work in MMA.

If we analyze the career structure of it's best competitors too, stadium fighters, then we have also to consider the miles and injuries they had. Like i said, it's not a good background, the chance of a wrestler/BJJ guy/kickboxer succeed is higher, and "top Thais not having interest nor trying" isn't part of the equation.

 

[Cocakillbana]

I don't think it's just the rhythm, it's also the MT stance. Too much of a invitation to takedowns.

The argument about stance is common, and not a good one. This thinking should also mean that a prominent muay thai fighter could never get anywhere in boxing. Oh, you mean the fighter changed how he stood because he's now fighting in a different sport? Gee, who woulda thunk it.

I think MT as a background can work, any discipline can, Barnett made catch wrestling work, there's a guy at the HW division fighting with a Sumo background and he's doing fairly well. There's a few things like all the clinch fighting and elbow techniques that are very useful, that's something to absorb from MT, but IMO MT as a overall style it's not a good one, needs many adaptations to work in MMA.

What's the muay thai style? I always here about this, but I don't know what it means.

Do Floyd Mayweather and Brandon Rios share a boxing style?

 

[Cocakillbana]

me: here's an example of prominent practitioners from various disciplines who struggled at mma.
executionmma: lollol a few examples can't tell the story.
also executionermma: muay thai sucks for mma because Sagetdao lost once.

 

[executionermma]

me: here's an example of prominent practitioners from various disciplines who struggled at mma.
executionmma: lollol a few examples can't tell the story.

I never said that, don't put words in my mouth.
The difference between MT and kickboxing/wrestling/BJJ, as i've already stated, is that a few high lv competitors of the other disciplines have been successful in MMA, while with MT that's just not true, and definitely not due to lack of high lv Thais trying.

also executionermma: muay thai sucks for mma because Sagetdao lost once.

He's not the only one.

 

[Snubnoze707]

lv competitors of the other disciplines have been successful in MMA, while with MT that's just not true, and definitely not due to lack of high lv Thais trying.

Are you blind to any of the arguements against this or do you just not care about the facts?

I guess non-Thais with MT backgrounds don't count?

 

[executionermma]

Are you blind to any of the arguements against this or do you just not care about the facts?

I guess non-Thais with MT backgrounds don't count?

There is no argument against this, it's a fact.
These non-Thais with MT backgrounds you are talking about do not qualify as "high lv competitors", i suggest more reading and less passion in your next debates.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Please people stop feeding the troll This thread is shitty enough already.

 

[Snubnoze707]

There is no argument against this, it's a fact.
These non-Thais with MT backgrounds you are talking about do not qualify as "high lv competitors", i suggest more reading and less passion in your next debates.

Ah fuck off buddy. Somehow I got confused and thought you were a decent poster at one point and not some lame ass troll. I've already sonned you in this thread, moving on...