Do you support Roe Vs. Wade?

[Seano]

This is quite revealing of your psychology.

Don't put me on the list !

Still, this was a Trump campaign platform pillar, that he would appoint justices to challenge Roe v Wade and that he expected it to be overturned. It's one of the major things that shored up his evangelical support. It's a real thing, not a tactic to scare young women, who you see as whores because you are broken inside.

It won't be overturned and it is a thought control tactic to scare young promiscuous women.

 

[Fawlty]

That's fair but when it comes to fatherhood and child support I often run into the argument that by virtue of consenting to sex with the women the man consents to fatherhood and should be made liable for child support and thus at the mercy of the mother's decision on whether or not to abort.

I'm not necessarily against that for two reasons. One is I don't believe in equality between the sexes, especially in the context of reproduction where the inequality between them is most obvious. Second, in the interest of the child it makes sense to keep the biological father on the hook and also to some extent you have to imagine this acts as a deterrent to irresponsible sex, at least among those of us who exercise foresight which unfortunately isn't enough of us.

Logical, but I think it's irrelevant because that is preempted by the simple fact that he is the father, which confers responsibility.

But IMO for those who believe in equality for the sexes as an unimpeachable ideal I think its a stickier issue. Women have the option to opt out of a pregnancy and motherhood, shouldn't men also have a way to opt out? Why should their consent to sex mean consent to fatherhood when the reverse isn't true for women?

Easily resolved as a question of bodily autonomy I think. The man cannot opt as to the internal organs of the woman.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Logical, but I think it's irrelevant because that is preempted by the simple fact that he is the father, which confers responsibility.


Easily resolved as a question of bodily autonomy I think. The man cannot opt as to the internal organs of the woman.

Sure he can't make her get the abortion but should he be made liable for a pregnancy he didn't intend? He consented to sex, not fatherhood. Why shouldn't he be able to opt out by relinquishing his parental rights and responsibilities?

 

[Fawlty]

Sure he can't make her get the abortion but should he be made liable for a pregnancy he didn't intend? He consented to sex, not fatherhood. Why shouldn't he be able to opt out by relinquishing his parental rights and responsibilities?

That question doesn't feel like it should be mixed up with questions of abortion relating to women's rights.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That question doesn't feel like it should be mixed up with questions of abortion relating to women's rights.

I think its in the same ballpark but okay fair enough.

 

[IGIT]

...but the statistics tell the whole story from their number of sexual encounters, high prevalence of disease and suicide along with a number of other health issues specific to the gay community. These lifestyle choices along with the lgbt propaganda are destructive to society.

hi there Johnny Mac,

i think in cases like this, the best default philosophy is to favor freedom and liberty.

there are many choices that Americans make that can have risky outcomes, healthwise; gun owners, for example, are far more likely to kill members of their family with their guns - or themselves via suicide - than those who don't own guns.

likewise, landscapers are far more likely to suffer injury or a fatality whilst at work, compared Catholic priests.

that doesn't mean our children shouldn't be taught about guns or contemplate a career in lawn care.

its about freedom. freedom and liberty.

also, regarding alternative lifestyle choices;

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/03/straight-men-and-lesbian-porn/472521/

there seems to be a pretty healthy interest, at least among men, in same sex relationships (although Wyoming and Montana seem to be more interested in incest, whilst there seems to be a predilection in the South for fucking black people).

- IGIT

 

[Fawlty]

I think its in the same ballpark but okay fair enough.

The problem for me with the men's rights stuff being brought into this question is that there is no bodily autonomy problem. There is also no standard from the men's rights side of the issue that can be brought to bear on the woman's. It can be resolved independently. I just offer the actual growing human life inside of one person, and not the other, as a distinction so fundamental that there isn't any transfer of principles between them. There probably can't even be hypocrisy.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The problem for me with the men's rights stuff being brought into this question is that there is no bodily autonomy problem. There is also no standard from the men's rights side of the issue that can be brought to bear on the woman's. It can be resolved independently. I just offer the actual growing human life inside of one person, and not the other, as a distinction so fundamental that there isn't any transfer of principles between them. There probably can't even be hypocrisy.

Like I said I don't necessarily believe in equality in this case because the inequality is rooted in the reproductive process itself. But the idea of "male abortion", the ability for a father to opt out of parental responsibility, is something that you do see discussed in some of the more feminist countries like Denmark and Sweden since its addressing what is seen as an inequality between the sexes.

 

[IamStryker]

It would be easier if you would give a little ground here, based on what you know and have experienced. You are sexually experienced, right? I assume pretty much everyone here is, so we understand that we're not consenting to a pregnancy every time we fuck. Birth control methods fail; they are subject to human error. People are wired with a serious drive to procreate that we have not mastered. We're not entirely sane when we're fucking. There is a big space here between some kind of implied consent and the reality of sexual behavior. It isn't anything like giving consent in other areas of life, so it's not fair to stand on that. That isn't to say there isn't some responsibility, which we address through sex ed and parental (god help us) guidance. It should strike you as bizarre that the majority of people who want to say that sex is consent for pregnancy are the same people who support the undermining of sex education.

You take the risk every time you fuck so it's still your choice. You don't have to consent to take that risk.

I do not undermine sex education.

 

[Johnny Mac]

I don't want to get into an argument with you, because we've been posting pretty civilly so far, but what you're talking about is discrimination. Gay people are just like everyone else. They just have feelings that are counter to the normal scheme of things. So should we say it's a sin for them to feel that way or just accept and respect them if they behave the same way towards us? I have gay friends that are beautiful human beings. Truthfully it does make you think a little that some guy might want to have sex with you but women deal with that on a daily basis.

Likewise, there is no need for it to be uncivil. I believe your thoughts are genuine. There is no discrimination here though....and I could say the same thing about prostitutes, druggies that share dirty needles, and porn stars. They all have feelings and deserve to be loved. However it does not change the aspects of the lifestyle being destructive, and my stance is that the government should not be promoting and indoctrinating society through public schools with behaviors that are destructive. I don't know anyone that is saying that they should not have rights, except for Muslims.

 

[TyranicalTrump]

Morally, I am against it

But in a free society I understand the need for it socially and economically.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Likewise, there is no need for it to be uncivil. I believe your thoughts are genuine. There is no discrimination here though....and I could say the same thing about prostitutes, druggies that share dirty needles, and porn stars. They all have feelings and deserve to be loved. However it does not change the aspects of the lifestyle being destructive, and my stance is that the government should not be promoting and indoctrinating society through public schools with behaviors that are destructive. I don't know anyone that is saying that they should not have rights, except for Muslims.

Fair enough. I just don't understand what you mean by indoctrination. Do you mean they shouldn't be teachers or hold public office? I agree wholeheartedly that sharing needles or a prostitute are high risk behaviors. Those people might be straight or gay. Being promiscuous and/or not using protection is high risk behavior whether you are straight or gay.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Fair enough. I just don't understand what you mean by indoctrination. Do you mean they shouldn't be teachers or hold public office? I agree wholeheartedly that sharing needles or a prostitute are high risk behaviors. Those people might be straight or gay. Being promiscuous and/or not using protection is high risk behavior whether you are straight or gay.

No, that is not what I mean. As an example....Having trannies brought in to read story time to young kids at libraries....teaching grade school kids and promoting sexual desires of all kinds and celebrating these things as just a part of one's uniqueness is not educating but indoctrination. I agree with your last statement.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

No, that is not what I mean. As an example....Having trannies brought in to read story time to young kids at libraries....teaching grade school kids and promoting sexual desires of all kinds and celebrating these things as just a part of one's uniqueness is not educating but indoctrination. I agree with your last statement.

I agree with that, there's no need to flaunt your sexuality, I wouldn't want a stripper with her boobs hanging out speaking to kids either. Gay people though should be able to be teachers, marry, adopt, etc... because not all gays are "that" flamboyant stereotype.

 

[Johnny Mac]

I agree with that, there's no need to flaunt your sexuality, I wouldn't want a stripper with her boobs hanging out speaking to kids either. Gay people though should be able to be teachers, marry, adopt, etc... because not all gays are "that" flamboyant stereotype.

I agree with everything except I have an issue with gay marriage. It should be called a civil union. The militant lgbt movement uses this as a distraction to say there is inequality. However their behavior does not support an act of commitment but of promoting promiscuity. Marriage is all about commitment to one person. I also have an issue with government interfering to pervert a ceremony that has religious origins.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I agree with everything except I have an issue with gay marriage. It should be called a civil union. The militant lgbt movement uses this as a distraction to say there is inequality. However their behavior does not support an act of commitment but of promoting promiscuity. Marriage is all about commitment to one person. I also have an issue with government interfering to pervert a ceremony that has religious origins.

As long as whatever you call it gives them the same rights that a married couple has I don't think there would be much complaint. I really don't think you're being fair by saying they're more promiscuous than heterosexual people and not making a lifetime commitment when they get married, but otherwise I think this has been a successful summit, so let's hope it goes as well for Trump when he meets with Putin.

 

[ocfightfan]

I'm for post natal abortion.

 

[TyranicalTrump]

Sure he can't make her get the abortion but should he be made liable for a pregnancy he didn't intend? He consented to sex, not fatherhood. Why shouldn't he be able to opt out by relinquishing his parental rights and responsibilities?

I agree and think that a man deciding to opt in or out would help women make better decisions about weather to have abortions or not. Hopefully it would also make them more selective in who they fuck. The court system and has taken that danger away.

but of course the big reason is that the gov don't want to pay for that shit if the dude opts out.

 

[TyranicalTrump]

As long as whatever you call it gives them the same rights that a married couple has I don't think there would be much complaint. I really don't think you're being fair by saying they're more promiscuous than heterosexual people and not making a lifetime commitment when they get married, but otherwise I think this has been a successful summit, so let's hope it goes as well for Trump when he meets with Putin.

this is a known fact.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

this is a known fact.

Has this study taken into account that men are more promiscuous than women?