Do you guys rate Bas Rutten's "self-taught" ground game?

[Beautiful Bro**]

Pretty sure Funaki taught him grappling.

 

[knoxpk]

didnt Pat Miletich and a host of other old school guys teach themselves grappling/bjj off tapes?

Pat Militech is an Iowa boy so I am sure he has a heavy dose of wrestling and he DID cross train in BJJ. A little known instructor who was in Florida for a while working on his college degree taught several guys, Militech was one of them.

Most of you are too young in the sport to remember this but the Gracies (and other bb's) were often accused of "holding back" when teaching in the early days....the instructor that taught Militech at that time was not one of them.

 

[Beautiful Bro**]

Pat was indeed a Wrestler.

 

[Kforcer]

Actually, Funaki, amongst other guys, taught Bas Rutten about grappling. Funaki has even cornered him. Also, Larry Papadopoulos trained him when he couldn't train with Funaki because he was able to get together with him more conveniently and with less jet-lag.

 

[Kforcer]

Pretty sure Funaki taught him grappling.

Yup.

 

[Beautiful Bro**]

Yup.

I'm also pretty sure I learned that from you.

 

[J Sho]

Pat Militech is an Iowa boy so I am sure he has a heavy dose of wrestling and he DID cross train in BJJ. A little known instructor who was in Florida for a while working on his college degree taught several guys, Militech was one of them.

Most of you are too young in the sport to remember this but the Gracies (and other bb's) were often accused of "holding back" when teaching in the early days....the instructor that taught Militech at that time was not one of them.

for sure but pat started out (in sub grappling) with the renzo tapes iirc?

 

[mattemate]

Basically people said that Helio's side of the family held back, but Carlos's did not. I'm not sure how true it is. I read an interview with Royce after he lost the match to Wallid Ishmael, and he said it is BS that they hold back (of course, what else would he say?). I've trained in guys from Helio's lineage (one a Relson BB, the other a Rickson brown), and they did not hold back at all. The Gracies I trained with seemed very generous with techniques, very detail oriented. I don't think there is much to the notion that they were holding back.

 

[nefti]

Actually, Funaki, amongst other guys, taught Bas Rutten about grappling. Funaki has even cornered him. Also, Larry Papadopoulos trained him when he couldn't train with Funaki because he was able to get together with him more conveniently and with less jet-lag.

yea it's weird how he marginalizes Funaki and the other guys at pancrease...

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Basically people said that Helio's side of the family held back, but Carlos's did not. I'm not sure how true it is. I read an interview with Royce after he lost the match to Wallid Ishmael, and he said it is BS that they hold back (of course, what else would he say?). I've trained in guys from Helio's lineage (one a Relson BB, the other a Rickson brown), and they did not hold back at all. The Gracies I trained with seemed very generous with techniques, very detail oriented. I don't think there is much to the notion that they were holding back.

maybe guys you trained with did not hold back but I think when people say the Gracies held back some stuff, they were talking about some Gracies specifically and not including all of their black belt students/instructors who were teaching as I am guessing many individuals who learned under them have their own philosophy about sharing techniques and teaching. There is no question about whether or not if techniques were held back when BJJ was in its infancy in the USA. Just take a look at Rorion's instructionals and tell me with a straight face nothing was held back. As if the family disapproved with Rorion releasing those tapes

 

[nefti]

Basically people said that Helio's side of the family held back, but Carlos's did not. I'm not sure how true it is. I read an interview with Royce after he lost the match to Wallid Ishmael, and he said it is BS that they hold back (of course, what else would he say?). I've trained in guys from Helio's lineage (one a Relson BB, the other a Rickson brown), and they did not hold back at all. The Gracies I trained with seemed very generous with techniques, very detail oriented. I don't think there is much to the notion that they were holding back.

they are talking about Rorion and how his brothers and cousins were forced to hold techniques back because they worked for rorion.

 

[Dubious Dom]

shit, it works.

 

[04jamell]

Actually, Funaki, amongst other guys, taught Bas Rutten about grappling. Funaki has even cornered him. Also, Larry Papadopoulos trained him when he couldn't train with Funaki because he was able to get together with him more conveniently and with less jet-lag.

this, he started with funaki 6 months before the first ken fight right?

 

[YeahBee]

this, he started with funaki 6 months before the first ken fight right?

still he always lived in Holland from what I can gather, how much training could he have done with Funaki?

Bas has ties with Bluming/Dolman as I wrote before, arrogant/ignorant to say that only Funaki taught him.

and not to mention the ties with Golden Glory, they were doing MMA way back in the 90s to, John Lewis IIRC