Do you disqualify Jon Jones from the GOAT talk?

[RockyLockridge]

to be fair, fedor fought people that had enough juice to jump to the moon....

Yeah that's true too, but if all that matters is tests? Then it becomes black and white to me at least, that there should be separation. I don't wanna have to speculate who is juicing and who isn't.

 

[Lee Danger]

is Armstrong the goat cyclist?
is Ben Johnson considered one of the faster men on the planet?
is Marion Jones a role model with all her medals?

if you are ok with Jones and Silva being considered among the bests of the sport don't be offended when people confuse mma with prowrestling.

 

[Oddmonster]

Because he was caught taking PEDs?

Do you also disqualify Anderson Silva?

or both different scenarios?

If you are caught doping you can never be in GOAT talks.

I know a lot of you will whine "but they all dope whaaa whaaa".
In Denmark we have a saying - " Thieves think everyone steals". And to all of you who defends his doping, or anyone elses, all it tells me is that you yourself have a cheater mentality and a scumbag mindset.

Besides that -
" In a review of studies. Researchers estimated that between 14% and 39% of current adult elite athletes have intentionally used doping."
- https://www.invigormedical.com/perf...athletes-who-use-performance-enhancing-drugs/


It is about evidence - Jon popped 2/3 times and is the only athlete in the world that pulses steroids, wtf ever that means.

Every fight he has ever had has an asterisk next to it.

 

[Skarsgard]

The PED use isn't the only thing disqualifying Jones to me. It's the intentional fouling that does it for me. He never developed anything close to a solid jab, so he utilized eye pokes instead.

 

[Oddmonster]

No I actually disqualify fighters who have not tested positive. If you must rely on the false pretense of being "clean" to enhance your legacy, it actually does the opposite.

Dumbest take I have seen yet.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

No I actually disqualify fighters who have not tested positive. If you must rely on the false pretense of being "clean" to enhance your legacy, it actually does the opposite.

Best take I have seen yet. Make this man a mod!

 

[Oddmonster]

Obviously. Multiple PED failures. The science behind "pulsing" was extremely suspect and rejected by WADA and the Olympics. After that disgrace of a scientist Eichner's pulsing science failed, he took a job with the UFC now. I think we all know Jon was just using Turinabol the whole time.

I have a theory on it.

This is Obelix -


In his city they have this special magic drink that makes you super strong, but it does not last long, so the warriors there will drink it before they go into battle.
Except Obelix. You see, Obelix fell into the pot with the magic drink when he was a baby, so he is ALWAYS super strong.

I believe Jon Jones has been on steroids since he was a kid/young teenager. Both his brothers who are/were in the NFL got busted for juicing, and with how we know jon Jones, what is the chance he did not dope with his brothers? Especially considering they became rich and famous doing it. It simply runs in the family.

 

[jeff7b9]

As far as Anderson Silva goes, there was no sign of him juicing before the freaking leg injury, therefore I don’t eliminate him from the GOAT talk.

I am pretty sure this is verifiable false...

His cribs episode which aired prior to his UFC 126 fight with Vitor had peds visible on camera.




I could be wrong, according to my wife it has allegedly happened before, but I don't believe that to be the case here.

 

[Oddmonster]

No because those two are far from the only fighters to ever use roids.

All Nate is saying there is " I used steroids, so everyone else have to be using steroids too, else it is just me that is a cheating scumbag".

 

[gentel]

Jones popped repeatedly, and also constantly used eye pokes and the threat of eye pokes to gain an advantage. Silva did pop but only once and after his leg break, not that it's okay but with Silva that cheating was the exception whereas Jones was constantly cheating with PEDs and eye pokes

 

[markg171]

Big difference is the level playing field.

I'm stunned so many don't realise this matters especially in a forum so strongly opposed to fighters like Fallon Fox or swimmers like Lia Thomas .

Say Fedor and Cro Cop were using PEDs. But it was open to be used in that organization (Pride). So what's the big deal? It's even playing field, everyone was using. So in a way the use of PEDs cancels each other out.

Banning PEDs doesn't change that everybody naturally has different levels to start with. Do you think these fighters are robots all sitting at exactly 700 test each or something? There can be a huge range of difference between them, no different than if one of them actually was taking PEDs.

Let alone the million different ways the fighters differ. Is it a level playing field when one of them has better coaches, nutrition, training facilities, upbringing, reach, chin, whatever? Or does that not count for you guys?

There's never been an even playing field. It's always been a convenient lie some of you tell yourselves.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

I don't think he's disqualified from GOAT talks. He's done enough to be in the discussion. With that said he's disqualified from Undisputed GOAT talks as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Well it's not allowed where Jones competed, is it?

yeah sure but when measuring greatness head to head, All things considered fair (roids) lots of jones opponents have used steroids or other banned substances too, so where do we draw the line? we say that jones cheated and was on roids, but machinda, Chael, Vitor all have similar violations as well. So he too, was maybe just fighting on an even playing ground. It's all too speculative for me to just eliminate people from the coversation. I find that a lot of people dont like jones so they exclude him for that reason, but they'll keep Anderson.... or whomever.

 

[BlankaPresident]

Anderson popped after his prime, when he already lost his best after the leg break. There is no hard evidence of PED use during his championship reign when he broke a lot of records. Jones popped multiple times in his prime, including for some of the most important fights in his career. While I don't think either one is disqualified from GOAT talks, you have to take the circumstances of their test failures in consideration.

But actually nothing of that matters because the GOAT is Fedor.

 

[Gregoire1]

Jones is undisputed GOAT for now. Like Jordan in basketball. Like Novac in tennis. Like Carlsen in chess.
Andy is top-4 undisputed.

 

[VinceArch]

GOATS don't pop for steroids.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Anderson popped after his prime, when he already lost his best after the leg break. There is no hard evidence of PED use during his championship reign when he broke a lot of records. Jones popped multiple times in his prime, including for some of the most important fights in his career. While I don't think either one is disqualified from GOAT talks, you have to take the circumstances of their test failures in consideration.

But actually nothing of that matters because the GOAT is Fedor.

this is cope

 

[markg171]

yeah sure but when measuring greatness head to head, All things considered fair (roids) lots of jones opponents have used steroids or other banned substances too, so where do we draw the line? we say that jones cheated and was on roids, but machinda, Chael, Vitor all have similar violations as well. So he too, was maybe just fighting on an even playing ground. It's all too speculative for me to just eliminate people from the coversation. I find that a lot of people dont like jones so they exclude him for that reason, but they'll keep Anderson.... or whomever.

Aldo got a tester deported after delaying his test by 2 days and multiple attempts, and then would only submit to testing by the Brazilian Commission his own team called in instead of NSAC who were the ones trying to random test him. The BC then changed his test's shipping date without explanation and then asked for a selfie and autograph.

Aldo also just fought 2 months after coming out of retirement when the 6 month testing requirement remains in effect with the new providers as well. His testing history shows he wasn't being tested before this. He obviously got an exemption.

Rather than exclude him too though as you say people instead seem to be rather selective about it. It's almost like they're just being subjective about whatever helps their favourite fighters and don't have an objective stance on it.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

how can they be in consideration - know one will ever know what they would have accomplished without PEDS>

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

FEDOR, GSP, MIGHTY MOUSE, KHABIB.....