Do you consider Sakuraba to be a UFC champion?

[achoo42]

Tatsuro Taira says he wants to become the first UFC champion from Japan.

The question is, was Sakuraba already the first UFC champion from Japan?

 

[GSP_37]

Was Sakuraba a tourney champ like PRIDE had GP champ?

 

[gosuasus]

Yes, Saku armbared Conan for the title and destroyed Gracie clan

+ UFC belt has no meaning given who has held it in recent years

 

[NoSmilez]

No. If you do then you gotta consider Royce as 3 time champion.

 

[forsh]

Sakuraba holds the legendary title of The Gracie Killer. Not sure any belt would matter more.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Saku Belt > UFC Belt

 

[TheBrownRanger]

Early UFC tournament champions are just that. Tournament champions. Not really the same thing as conventional titles like the UFC Superfight title or the weight class titles. This is generally why Dan Henderson is not considered a UFC champion.

Was Sakuraba a tourney champ like PRIDE had GP champ?

I’d hold those in lower regard than the PRIDE, Bellator, or Strikeforce GPs, which had the best talent from the respective organizations participating in those. Maybe around the same level of prestige as an original Bjorn-era Bellator tournament. Saku just beat a dude and went to a draw with the same guy during Ultimate Japan, really.

 

[ferrisjso]

Didn't Silvera win the EF HW belt? Making it a sort of unification? EF was the first American promotion with weight class based belts I think.

I generally consider the tourny champs champs unless they fought alternates in the final(the fatal flaw of the concept and why it had to die). But here they redid the SF and in Mezgers case the alternate was Tito.

 

[achoo42]

No. If you do then you gotta consider Royce as 3 time champion.

I think a lot of people do.

Early UFC tournament champions are just that. Tournament champions

That doesn't answer the question; so is he or is he not a UFC champion?

 

[filthybliss]

Sakuraba is the best mma fighter from Asia. Dunno when we’ll see a ww beat up lhw champs like Rampage again. Sakuraba is the true BMF too

 

[Sweater of AV]

Of course. More importantly, he's the GOAT and the champion of our hearts.

 

[mkt]

Was Sakuraba a tourney champ like PRIDE had GP champ?

In the strictest sense of the word, I guess, but not really IMO. He won a tournament but it was pretty weird. He beat Conan twice...the first only lasted 90 seconds and was a NC due to a premature stoppage from Big John. Tank Abbott beat the mess out of some Japanese guy for a 15-minute decision but injured his hand and didn't continue. So Sakuraba fought Conan again and submitted him.

Also, Randy Couture was the HW champ at the time and retained his title in the same event by beating Mo Smith. There were already established HW and LHW champs with belts by that time.

If Sakuraba is considered a champ, then everyone who won tournaments were champs: Severn, Frye, Oleg, etc. And almost all of those guys had to beat 2 or 3 different guys before there were official HW and LHW champs. So I'd put a footnote by Sakuraba's name as a tournament winner. At least it wasn't as bad as Steve Jennum winning as an alternate who only fought Harold Howard in the final (even though Royce, Ken Shamrock and Kimo were in the tournament).

 

[Hank Grill]

Should recognize these old fogies who fought in the early days champion doesn't mean shit now. We are not going to remember a whiny bitch like hill even if Saku wasn't a chanp we are talking about it over 20 years later.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Didn't Silvera win the EF HW belt? Making it a sort of unification? EF was the first American promotion with weight class based belts I think.

I generally consider the tourny champs champs unless they fought alternates in the final(the fatal flaw of the concept and why it had to die). But here they redid the SF and in Mezgers case the alternate was Tito.

He lost it to Maurice Smith before this. Coleman v. Smith was the unification.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Yes, he won a tournament but it was pretty weird. He beat Conan twice...the first was due to a premature stoppage from Big John. Tank Abbott beat the mess out of some Japanese guy for a 15-minute decision but injured his hand and didn't continue. So Sakuraba fought Conan again and submitted him.

Also, Randy Couture was the HW champ at the time and retained his title in the same event by beating Mo Smith.

If Sakuraba is considered a champ, then everyone who won tournaments were champs: Severn, Frye, Oleg, etc. And almost all of those guys had to beat 2 or 3 different guys before there were official HW and LHW champs. So I'd put a footnote by Sakuraba's name as a tournament winner. At least it wasn't as bad as Steve Jennum winning as an alternate who only fought Harold Howard in the final (even though Royce, Ken Shamrock and Kimo were in the tournament).

I think it was Anjo, the dipshit pro wrestle who stormed the Gracie dojo and was messed up by Rickson.

 

[Pierced7681]

I think a lot of people do.



That doesn't answer the question; so is he or is he not a UFC champion?

I think to be a ufc champion you have to win an actual belt. Tourney champs were awarded medals I believe, here’s Hendo with his after the Newton fight

 

[achoo42]

I think to be a ufc champion you have to win an actual belt. Tourney champs were awarded medals I believe, here’s Hendo with his after the Newton fight

In that case, you should describe them as tourney winners rather than tourney champions...

I think the key difference you're describing is that if you're champion, you have to be defend that championship to stay champion.

 

[Elvis.]

No , he won a tournament, not an official champion
But I consider Sakuraba a living legend who’s reputation and legacy surpasses any type of criticism that not holding some belt would possibly bring

 

[Pierced7681]

In that case, you should describe them as tourney winners rather than tourney champions...

I think the key difference is that if you're champion, you have to be defend that championship to stay champion.

Yea sure tourney winner sounds better, but like you just said, you need to win a belt in order to defend it.

 

[mkt]

I think it was Anjo, the dipshit pro wrestle who stormed the Gracie dojo and was messed up by Rickson.

Yeah, that was him. Couture, Mo Smith, Frank Shamrock and Vitor Belfort also fought at the event. Seems like they could've had a bigger tournament or more interesting matchmaking. Shamrock and Belfort won their matches quickly and easily.