Do you consider BJ Penn to be top 10 all time?

pankrat said:
Im not wasting any time with a noob of your caliber.

Do yourself the homework. List the top ranked wins of one and other, and I maybe I point what is lacking. Not the other way around,
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Double checked. BJ has 9, Charles has 6. In my mind Charles had more ranked wins in his long wins streak to the title, but apparently his only 2 ranked wins before getting the title was Tony and Kevin Lee
 
Seahawks Fan said:
A very controversial figure but undoubtedly one of the most purely talented fighters ever.and who managed to capture world titles in two divisions before it became more common. A fearless warrior who competed from 155 all the way up to heavyweight and who pulled off the biggest upset in mma history at the time when he moved up and beat Matt Hughes.

Do you consider bJ top 10 all time?
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A top 5 fighter that needs a therapy before hitting innocent people on streets.
 
GOATtalks said:
Double checked. BJ has 9, Charles has 6. In my mind Charles had more ranked wins in his long wins streak to the title, but apparently his only 2 ranked wins before getting the title was Tony and Kevin Lee
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Thing is babyjay was fighting guys like uno and sherk lol

Charles fought much better competition
 
SalvadorAllende said:
Thing is babyjay was fighting guys like uno and sherk lol

Charles fought much better competition
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Not sure what you find laughable about Uno and Sherk, specially the way BJ KOed them. They were two of the very best LWs in the world at the time.

If you want to take the full-shebro route of the "evolution of the sport", then we can start discrediting Fedor, GSP, Silva, or anybody from BJ generation.
 
pankrat said:
Not sure what losses you refer, but taking on the likes of Machida or GSP in huge size dissadvantage and gave them a competitive fight regardless of what the judges say afterwards not only negates anything, it actually added to his stock.
I know this is hard to grasp for many wiki sherbros in these boards, but that was the case in the eyes of most fight fans, pundits and fellow fighters.
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I know it's hard for B.J. Penn nuthangers to grasp but so he fought heavier guys and lost. So what? He also fought lighter guys and lost and fought guys his own size and lost. More than you'd expect of an all-time great. Gimme a f'ing break. If you were there like guys like me, you'd have known that. B.J. Penn was good but not as good as some make out. We all know that he was never afraid to lose. Witness his latest streak. But again "So what?" and another "gimme a f'ing break". Losing is losing.
 
Top 5 wasted talent.
Top 10 fighter had he retired sooner.
top 20 now
 
pankrat said:
BJ cleaned out the LW division and stopped the #1 WW. Period. That alone gets him in the discussion for top10 all-time.

Furthermore, his decisions losses to the much bigger Machida and GSP, as well as the draw with perennial contender WW Fitch add value to his career. I understand for a wikipedia sherbro it doesnt, becaue can't find the W on paper so its nothing. Most pundits and fellow fighters DO give him credit for those, whether if you grasp it or you stick to wikipedia.
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Legit question - Do you consider Conor a GOAT?

Cleaned out the FW and stopped the LW champion. That alone should get him discussion for top 10 all time, right?

We just ignore these unmotivated losses to Khabib and Poirier at the end of his career and he should get credit for moving up and taking on the much bigger Nate Diaz, despite losing, right?
 
At LW? It's debatable, IMO. I think he's top 5 for wasted potential.
 
In raw talent and skill, he is one of the GOATS. His career panned out very differently tho. It’s strange that we talk about BJ like some bum, when he was a two weight world champion, who choked out the number 1 p4p fighter in the world in under a round.
 
Soggust said:
Legit question - Do you consider Conor a GOAT?

Cleaned out the FW and stopped the LW champion. That alone should get him discussion for top 10 all time, right?

We just ignore these unmotivated losses to Khabib and Poirier at the end of his career and he should get credit for moving up and taking on the much bigger Nate Diaz, despite losing, right?
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it’s very different. Hughes was the best fighter in the world at that point. Alvarez is a great LW, but was never close to number 1 p4p
 
wisdom blows said:
it’s very different. Hughes was the best fighter in the world at that point. Alvarez is a great LW, but was never close to number 1 p4p
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True, but I would argue starching the guy who hadn't lost in 10 years in 13 seconds is a comparable win or at least splitting hairs on the resume.
 
pankrat said:
Plenty of pundits and fans have him top10.
Even FitghtMatrix does:
https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/

About his late career slide...only in sherdog somehow erases what he did during his prime.
In no sport such retarded logic is apploed.
Sugar Ray Robinson is widely considered the GOAT boxer despite his late career losses.
And nobody downplays what Michaej Jordan did with the Bulls based on how he looked in Wizards.
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I don't see it quite the same way...

At which point do you deserve the line? When he stopped being champion? When he started his losing streak? When he moved down in weight? When he fought(and lost to) Frankie Edgar for the 57th time?

You can't ignore the fact he cleared out a division, fought at various weight classes and performed well, and was considered GOAT at one point...... Sadly you can't ignore his own delusional attempts to reclaim what he lost... The BJ that beat Diego Sanchez would have demolished all that came thereafter, but he still lost a decision to Dennis Siver, and got bitched by Ryan Hall...

Anderson Silva is my all-time favourite - the same applies to him too... Once the magic has gone, you're only harming your legacy by sticking around...
 
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Soggust said:
True, but I would argue starching the guy who hadn't lost in 10 years in 13 seconds is a comparable win or at least splitting hairs on the resume.
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Conor’s win over Aldo is an all time win in MMA, without question. Also, had Conor not left MMA for a few years to focus on getting rich, he could very well have been talked about amongst the top guys ever. Conor from 2012-2016 was the best striker in MMA and a two weight world champion. That should always be remembered, his personal shenanigans aside.
 
As a huge BJ fan it's tough to say no, LW all time number 2 or 3 for me, but all time takes into account a whole lot more

Up to a point in his career yes, I'd probably have him top 20

But I could care a shit about any of this, he's one of my all time favourites, that's all that really counts to me
 
wisdom blows said:
Conor’s win over Aldo is an all time win in MMA, without question. Also, had Conor not left MMA for a few years to focus on getting rich, he could very well have been talked about amongst the top guys ever. Conor from 2012-2016 was the best striker in MMA and a two weight world champion. That should always be remembered, his personal shenanigans aside.
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Yeah, I don't want to come off making the wrong argument here. I'm not trying to trap the OQ by asking.

I personally think Conor is relatively underrated all time and I think "sure, Conor's career is also relatively underrated due to late stage losses" is a totally fair answer.

Conor's not a top tier p4p on the pyramid, but his career is super respectable imo.

I just don't often hear the majority Sherdoggers apply that context similarly, so I felt it was worth highlighting.
 
Baby Jay is a legend. He has really big balls. Fighting guys way bigger than him. And in the meantime killing everybody his own size.

The guy also became bjj black belt world champion after only 3 years training.

His downfall was terrible. But his prime was terrific.
 
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